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Old 20-10-2013, 09:21   #16
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

At one time I worked retrieving electronic gear that had been over a mile deep in the ocean. The gear that had been submerged several years came up looking brand new, like it was right off the shelf, even very fine threads and even some tags.

At that depth there is no light and almost no oxygen to "break down" the trash. Even closer to the surface, life, light and oxygen disappear rapidly with depth. Our crew often speculated on what a museum of man lays undisturbed on the ocean floor. It is probably not pretty.

And as far as surface trash, smaller and harder to see isn't the same as gone.
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Old 20-10-2013, 09:22   #17
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Which says:

". . . as little is known about its effects"

"However, long term impacts on marine organisms are currently unknown."

"However, this is of more importance for larger plastic debris"

"At current levels, microplastics are unlikely to be an important global geochemical reservoir for POPs"

Maybe it's worth worrying about microplastics, when we actually know that there's anything to worry about?


By which I do not mean to say that there is nothing at all to worry about. Of course, we should do more to keep garbage out of the ocean, particularly non-bio-degradable plastics, and I think probably everyone would agree about that. The main cuprit in putting garbage into the Pacific are third world countries which can't afford and/or don't bother to dispose of plastics properly.

An international effort to reduce the amount of plastic dumped into the oceans would probably not cost a ridiculous amount of money.

But to say that the ocean is "broken" seems quite hyperbolic. The concentration of plastic in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is something like 5.5kg per square kilometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch). Exaggerating these problems merely discredits the very worthwhile effort to solve them.


I couldn't agree more.

Wikipedia is not the best source to educate on this subject, but it sure is easy!
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Old 20-10-2013, 09:42   #18
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Which says:

". . . as little is known about its effects"

"However, long term impacts on marine organisms are currently unknown."

"However, this is of more importance for larger plastic debris"

"At current levels, microplastics are unlikely to be an important global geochemical reservoir for POPs"

Maybe it's worth worrying about microplastics, when we actually know that there's anything to worry about?


By which I do not mean to say that there is nothing at all to worry about. Of course, we should do more to keep garbage out of the ocean, particularly non-bio-degradable plastics, and I think probably everyone would agree about that. The main cuprit in putting garbage into the Pacific are third world countries which can't afford and/or don't bother to dispose of plastics properly.

An international effort to reduce the amount of plastic dumped into the oceans would probably not cost a ridiculous amount of money.

But to say that the ocean is "broken" seems quite hyperbolic. The concentration of plastic in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is something like 5.5kg per square kilometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch). Exaggerating these problems merely discredits the very worthwhile effort to solve them.
5.5 kg equals round about 1,000 plastics shopping bags.
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:00   #19
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

This guy looks like a liar, I bet his pants are on fire. Pictures or it didn't happen! Oh crap, I just googled the guys name, now look what happened.

Ivan MacFadyen's sea odyssey | Newcastle Herald

I mean seriously, like the guy didn't write the article about himself. So because the author of the article decided against including images, you people are going to suggest the story is all fluff and the guy is exaggerating his claims? Really?

Liar, liar, pants on fire!
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:08   #20
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
The last sentence ........



But it's OK to ship tons of Chinese junk across vast oceans.
Now Del...Don't get me going!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Where would you put the collected garbage ????
Landfill of course. Out of sight, out of mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by europaflyer View Post
Shame he has no pictures to verify his claims. Although ocean pollution is a massive problem, he seems to be claiming that his entire trans-Pacific route followed one big garbage patch where you can't start your engine for fear of hitting a submerged object. This seems an exaggeration of the truth...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
I take this as " belive half of what you see and None of what you hear !! If it was so bad where are the pictures, the underwater footage, a sample, all I see is some guy with his selfie and his boat...Its like the little old lady from days past "wheres the beef"? ...He wont be helping the cause until he shows us what he described and proves it...Of course we could just "blindly dedicate ourselves" to what he/others tell us without any proof,would have been so easy for them to add a few shots of such activity and I would not be such a cynic...Dont mean to offend anyone and dont wont to be "offended by anyone"(without a little proof anyways)..
Ya...the article seemed a little doom and gloom with no real pictures. Just a lot of repetitiveness. "Horrible, sickening"...
Without a doubt we need turn around they way we dispose of garbage and clean up the oceans.
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:10   #21
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Which says:

". . . as little is known about its effects"

"However, long term impacts on marine organisms are currently unknown."

"However, this is of more importance for larger plastic debris"

"At current levels, microplastics are unlikely to be an important global geochemical reservoir for POPs"

Maybe it's worth worrying about microplastics, when we actually know that there's anything to worry about?


By which I do not mean to say that there is nothing at all to worry about. Of course, we should do more to keep garbage out of the ocean, particularly non-bio-degradable plastics, and I think probably everyone would agree about that. The main cuprit in putting garbage into the Pacific are third world countries which can't afford and/or don't bother to dispose of plastics properly.

An international effort to reduce the amount of plastic dumped into the oceans would probably not cost a ridiculous amount of money.

But to say that the ocean is "broken" seems quite hyperbolic. The concentration of plastic in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is something like 5.5kg per square kilometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch). Exaggerating these problems merely discredits the very worthwhile effort to solve them.
I just recently saw an advertisment on ebay for an Albin Vega 27 and the fellow had sailed it into the ocean and described really bad things and said that he has a nonprofit that will collect data and report to us all what the particulated plastics are going to do to us and the oceans (I could be off on the objective but. it is still on ebay and one can check for themselves and figure out what he is doing..) tough little boat i..
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:19   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
I just recently saw an advertisment on ebay for an Albin Vega 27 and the fellow had sailed it into the ocean and described really bad things and said that he has a nonprofit that will collect data and report to us all what the particulated plastics are going to do to us and the oceans (I could be off on the objective but. it is still on ebay and one can check for themselves and figure out what he is doing..) tough little boat i..
That is Matt Rutherford. He sailed that Vega around both North and South America non stop.
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:19   #23
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Now Del...Don't get me going!

Landfill of course. Out of sight, out of mind.



Ya...the article seemed a little doom and gloom with no real pictures. Just a lot of repetitiveness. "Horrible, sickening"...
Without a doubt we need turn around they way we dispose of garbage and clean up the oceans.
Something aint right with this thread..Hummm?
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:24   #24
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
This guy looks like a liar, I bet his pants are on fire. Pictures or it didn't happen! Oh crap, I just googled the guys name, now look what happened.
Ivan MacFadyen's sea odyssey | Newcastle Herald
OK, there's one picture of a floating 'thing'. I'm not saying he didn't make the voyage, but I would love to see pictures of the hull which was 'dented and scratched all over the place' from hitting debris. Really? As Dockhead neatly puts it, exaggerating these problems merely discredits the very worthwhile effort to solve them. Extraordinary claims, as we know, require extraordinary evidence, which would include pictures, samples of the water which he claimed stripped the paint from his hull, samples from nets towed from the boat and calculations of the volume of water passed through them, etc, etc. If I was trying to make a point this is what I would do. I appreciate this man might not have a scientific background, but anyone should know that all the emotive writing in the world can't replace some actual proof.
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:31   #25
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Brings to mind the notion of shifting baselines:

Actionbioscience | Shifting Baselines: Slow-Motion Disaster in the Sea

“Shifting baselines” refers to the incremental lowering of standards, with respect to nature, in which each new generation:
  • lacks knowledge of how the environment used to be
  • redefines what is “natural,” according to personal experience
  • sets the stage for the next generation’s shifting baseline"
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:33   #26
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by europaflyer View Post
OK, there's one picture of a floating 'thing'. I'm not saying he didn't make the voyage, but I would love to see pictures of the hull which was 'dented and scratched all over the place' from hitting debris. Really? As Dockhead neatly puts it, exaggerating these problems merely discredits the very worthwhile effort to solve them. Extraordinary claims, as we know, require extraordinary evidence, which would include pictures, samples of the water which he claimed stripped the paint from his hull, samples from nets towed from the boat and calculations of the volume of water passed through them, etc, etc. If I was trying to make a point this is what I would do. I appreciate this man might not have a scientific background, but anyone should know that all the emotive writing in the world can't replace some actual proof.
I mean come on, how many times has someone here said "well it doesn't look it in the photo, but the waves were huge!" Sorry if his pictures aren't that impressive looking, maybe the guy should go to school for photojournalism before he goes sailing next time.

Is this guy an environmentalist with an axe to grind? Is he making the rounds of the talk-show circuit? Invited to dinner with the President? Writing a book or screenplay about his experience?

No, he's just a guy. A sailor who observed some sad things that bummed him out and he decided to share with others to bring attention to what a bunch of pigs we are. What does he have to gain by exaggerating or making false claims? Absolutely nothing!
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:38   #27
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Half the guys story is about how barren the sea had become since his last trip as a result of over-fishing.

You guys want an impressive looking picture of an ocean devoid of life or it didn't happen? Really? That's brilliant.
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:41   #28
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I mean come on, how many times has someone here said "well it doesn't look it in the photo, but the waves were huge!" Sorry if his pictures aren't that impressive looking, maybe the guy should go to school for photojournalism before he goes sailing next time.

Is this guy an environmentalist with an axe to grind? Is he making the rounds of the talk-show circuit? Invited to dinner with the President? Writing a book or screenplay about his experience?

No, he's just a guy. A sailor who observed some sad things that bummed him out and he decided to share with others to bring attention to what a bunch of pigs we are. What does he have to gain by exaggerating or making false claims? Absolutely nothing!
Who knows what someone may or may not have to win?I just think it strange that we dont see the stuff he is reporting,I am not saying its not there,but a few photos to acompany such claims would be nice..
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Old 20-10-2013, 10:43   #29
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I mean come on, how many times has someone here said "well it doesn't look it in the photo, but the waves were huge!" Sorry if his pictures aren't that impressive looking, maybe the guy should go to school for photojournalism before he goes sailing next time.

Is this guy an environmentalist with an axe to grind? Is he making the rounds of the talk-show circuit? Invited to dinner with the President? Writing a book or screenplay about his experience?

No, he's just a guy. A sailor who observed some sad things that bummed him out and he decided to share with others to bring attention to what a bunch of pigs we are. What does he have to gain by exaggerating or making false claims? Absolutely nothing!
I'm not saying his pictures aren't that impressive, they may well be. I just haven't seen any of them.

I don't know the man, and I don't know what his motivations are. He might just be a bummed out sailor as you say. However, he could also have an environmental axe to grind, or maybe want to make some money to get out of bankruptcy.

In the Internet age we are bombarded every day with claims and counter claims, and IMHO treating them with caution and requiring evidence before making conclusions is a more valuable skill than ever.
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Old 20-10-2013, 11:51   #30
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

europaflyer:
Quote:
OK, there's one picture of a floating 'thing'. I'm not saying he didn't make the voyage, but I would love to see pictures of the hull which was 'dented and scratched all over the place' from hitting debris. Really?
Didn't even take the time to look at the other pictures? The thing is we are running out of time brothers and sisters. Open your eyes and ears.

I am getting old and wont see the worst of the disaster this world is heading for but my grandchildren are sure going to suffer through it. Yours too if you have them.

Here is an article (wikipedia) on Midway Island. I think the estimates are conservative compared to other estimates of garbage that I have read.
Quote:
Midway Atoll, in common with all the Hawaiian Islands, receives substantial amounts of marine debris from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Consisting of ninety percent plastic, this debris accumulates on the beaches of Midway. This garbage represents a hazard to the bird population of the island. Twenty tons of plastic debris washes up on Midway every year with five tons of that debris being fed to Albatross chicks.[29] The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service estimates at least 100 lbs of plastic washes up every week.[30]

Of the 1.5 million Laysan Albatrosses that inhabit Midway, nearly all are found to have plastic in their digestive system.[31] Approximately one-third of the chicks die.[32] The reasons for these deaths is attributed to the albatrosses confusing brightly colored plastic with marine animals (such as squid and fish) for food.[33] Because albatross chicks do not develop the reflex to regurgitate until they are four months old, they cannot expel the plastic pieces. Albatrosses are not the only species to suffer from the plastic pollution; sea turtles and monk seals also consume the debris.[33] All kinds of plastic items wash upon the shores, from cigarette lighters to toothbrushes and toys. An albatross on Midway can have up to 50% of its intestinal tract filled with plastic.[30]
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