The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

[weavis]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

I could have been lucky, and the cost isn't as big a deal for me as the time; I could have bought a more expensive boat had I wanted. I'm not frugal so much as cheap, and will gladly spend a dollar to save a penny if I can get some cool tools!
However, I feel for a lot of the frugal sailors who may read this thread, getting lucky may be too big a risk to take. Would a $5,000 diesel engine replacement postpone, shorten, or kill your cruising dreams? If so, then get something with an outboard rather than a Diesel engine, if just from a risk management perspective.

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Its always about choices.
If your frugal because of cost restraints, then yes, an older diesel may prevent sailing for a while due to a low dollar budget.

Im personally a lover of outboards having lived in the USA Florida boating scene where nearly everything is an outboard. Some major names in monohull and catamarans use outboards.

I would agree with you 100%.

[Mike OReilly]

Bummer brownoarsman. Hope you get your engine issues solved soon so you can get back to the good life. After 10 years with two good old boats, my only conclusion is that all engines suck; inboard gas, diesel, outboard... they all become headaches for me eventually. If I could toss them I would. The problem is, I am no where near good enough as a sailor to get away without one. So I suffer along with constant maintenance and the occasional repair, always thinking I could have one heck of a beer fridge if I only had the guts and skills to get rid of the iron genny.

I'm learned how to be frugal with my engine by slowly (and painfully) becoming an amateur diesel mechanic. Either that or I have to become one heck of a great sailor. Or maybe I could make a yuloh work on my 30,000-pounder. Hmmmm..

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

...on a boat with an older engine, it's best to find one where the diesel has already blown up, and you can get the price knocked down based on the fact that it has an outboard rather than a diesel. Better to have the outboard...

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

...get something with an outboard...

I would not reach that conclusion. An outboard is usually inappropriate on an ocean-going cruising boat.

For someone with vast mechanical skills, buying a boat with a bad engine may not be a problem. But ordinarily the best bargain is someone's cream puff with a well maintained diesel inboard.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

I would not reach that conclusion. An outboard is usually inappropriate on an ocean-going cruising boat.

Transom-mounted, no argument. Can be shaky in a bay.

Well mounted in a catamaran, several have circled the globe. It is a very different case if the engine is mounted near the center of gyration and there are 2 of them.

Though the gas mileage still stinks.

[brownoarsman]

Good points. My cruising plans were Bahamas and possibly Caribbean. And to be fair to my diesel, it did save my boat in a storm that blew through key west, I'm not sure if a transom-mounted outboard would have been able to with the waves blowing in. So I guess it's back to cruising grounds and choices!
I would love to put a sculling oar on just for fun. There's a fellow here in boot key with what I believe is an Aquarius cutter, with two 15+ ft oars tied into his ratlines. I thought that was pretty cool!


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[hamburking]

The OP makes some great points. On an older boat, especially a smaller one, and outboard is a good option rather than have a 40 year old inboard.

I bought a Pearson 30 (cruiser version, not the flyer) just a few years ago in Toronto Canada. New standing rigging, CP, VHF, and main. The original Atomic 4 had been replaced with a 1985 Volvo Penta 2002. Although this engine gets terrible reviews, it has been excellent for me...starts every time and has never let me down (so far). We just had launch after a particularly brutal winter, and it started within 2 seconds of turning the key for the first time. Sorry to say, I paid much less than the OP. I think boat prices north of the border are much lower, likely due to a depressed economy, surplus of old sailboats, and the low canadian dollar.

IMHO, major engine trouble can hit any of us with older boats at any time. We do our best to change the oil and keep things going, but you never know.

I have seen 3 local ads for FREE sailboats this spring. An Alberg 22, an Annapolis 26, and a Grampian 28. All good boats, but the cost of ownership here easily exceeds the value of the boat...better to give it away FREE than pay for a slip for the summer.

[weavis]

One of the things to consider in boat purchase is to understand WHY you are buying the vessel in front of you.

Focusing on one aspect with the cruising sailor in mind, there is a difference of approach.

Are you buying to live aboard on a boat, or a boat that you can live on?

You might think this is the same question phrased in a different way, except it isnt.

Recently I went to Holland and took a look at 4 vessels. (Admittedly these were Motor boats in the 2-10 million price range, and of not much interest to me, but hey! I got to fly the aircraft.)

My colleague, for it was him on the hunt, spent a lot of time with the architect/designer discussing hull form, speed, engines, and deck space. I on the other hand, walked internally and decided if I could live on the boat.

This experience led me to understand another facet of boat purchasing. Im not a racer or a person that must have the latest or greatest, but I do WANT a boat that I can live on that also sails, rather than a great boat that I can live on. I dont like the layout of the Gunboats. So thats off the list. GREAT boat-dont want to live on it.

I can adapt the layout of the Broadblue 550 and like the features in the main, so that is on the list. Im not keen on the Leopard range for fit out, so they are off. Gemini 105 layout is fine so they are on my list.

All the above boats are good sailers, but- I want to live on it so the 'space' takes a priority for me. On the other hand, you might want the sailing aspects as a priority so everything else comes down the line.

An important consideration to take into account when purchasing a boat, ESPECIALLY when your wife is involved.

[Mike OReilly]

Very true Weavis. For us, when we we looking for the next boat (which we hope will be THE boat), my wife and I came up with a list of "must haves." Many were connected to sailing and working the boat, but an equal number were about the living space. After years of seasonal cruising with our previous boat we had both learned what was important to us as a couple.

For example, we learned that a functional galley was very important. Counter space, good sinks, a stove and oven, and plenty of easy but safe galley storage were all important.

We wanted a cabin space that was clean and easy to maneuver around in. One where it was possible to pass each other without having to feel cramped. We wanted settees that were comfortable to stretch out on for those long rainy days when we were stuck down below. We wanted a main berth that was truly large enough for two. We wanted a head that was spacious enough, but not humongous. We wanted a dedicated chart table, not one that was doing double-duty. And we wanted good amounts of deep storage as well as immediate-access storage.

Our needs are not the same as yours, but having a good living space was as important as having a good sailing machine when we went looking for our current boat.

[Buzzman]

Too true. I shall be spending a lot of time and cash modifying my boat - designed with 'not quite' standing headroom to one that has full standing headroom.

I have a crook back, and spending all day every day bent double was never going to work.

Ditto it will have enough solar to run a smal chest-type fridge and small freezer, and will have a composting toilet, as pumping out is these days illegal in most places (bar the open ocean) and fitting holding tanks would take up too much room in what is already a small, cramped boat. But the composting toilet has a larger footprint than a simple marine toilet bowl, so there's a compromise to be lived with.

But I have only recently realised that I will probably have to cut the boat in half, or make major design changes to the wings, as they are 'only just' too short for a comfortable wing deck berth, at 1.8m.

Sure, I *can* fit in a 1.8m bed - I just know I'll be cramped and uncomfortable, and life's too short to be uncomfortable in bed, every night, for weeks at a time.

Am contemplating moving the main cross beam aft by a foot, as the attachment point for this is the aft end of the wing pod, and the transverse stress and compression/tension moments require the hinge point of the ama to be on the main cross beam, and for this to be well bonded into the main hull.

And as the attachment point is going to be hinged, this is kinda crucial. Oh, and hinged so I can get into narrower marina berths, and not be perpetually on the 'outer', exposed end of marinas, or anchored out due to not being able to 'fit' into a standard berth.

Sure, trailering ability is another motivation, but as most marinas charge more for cats and tris, when they have berths wide enough for them (as many do these days), it's an added expense I'd rather avoid if I can.

If I was being a 'truly frugal' (or perhaps 'extra frugal') sailor, I'd "just go" with what I have. But I know my limitations. Perhaps if I was 20 years younger, and didn't have a crook back, I'd simply whack on a coat of paint, fit the mast and rigging I already have, and go, and worry about everything else along the way.

Exprience has taught me this is not a good call for me. So am saving for the 'right stuff' before I go, so that the experience can be more enjoyable from the get go.

When I was in my twenties I did my share of backpack camping - bushwalking, as it's called in this country, (hiking, tramping, rambling elsewhere) - and I wasn't over fond of the 'minimalist' approach even then, and was always glad to get back to a warm bed and a hot meal cooked on a proper stove, not a campfire.

But on occasions I walked with a guy who never carried a tent, just an emergency blanket to keep the rain and dew off, and as a result carried a daypack for a weekend away. Sure he was more comfortable than the rest of us while walking, but we never envied him his experience of any overnight rain showers.

Different strokes, but knowing your limits, and those of SWMBO, are critical to life aboard.

[zboss]

Frugal vs. Cheap...

5 Ways Frugal People Aren't Cheap

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by zboss

Frugal vs. Cheap...

5 Ways Frugal People Aren't Cheap

Exactly!


Why go fast, when you can go slow

[Tellie]

If you ask 10 frugal people and 10 cheap people who they think they are, I guarantee you'll have 20 people claiming to be frugal.

[Terra Nova]

Parsimonious.

[mikemenza]

One can learn frugality.. Some are born with it..
I spent a lifetime working, making reasonable money and spending it on things.. built a couple cars, too many boats.. keeping a house, too much yard..
One day Wall Street decided they were broke, and my income was cut by a third on unemployment at 50.. After a year I got a single interview and took the job making less then unemployment, but with decent insurance. Let me say, I never realized how much money we wasted. I learned frugality. Lose the toys, park the 4x4, get gas miser, run the boat considerably less. Buy 10 boxes of pasta when their on sale. Same with can tomatoes, sauces, veggies, fish and meat, fruits.. It seems counter productive at first, but the truth is food prices aren't going down.. Heating anything in the North East has become burdensome if you live outside natural gas areas. Went to wood and coal. Burdensome but we've learned a whole new way of life. So, when the time comes to pursue the boat dream of going off the mooring in a decent climate, it can be done pretty darn cheap, assuming you have a solid, paid for boat.. and provisioning plans.
Frugality, great thread..

[weavis]

A few on Cf dont get it.
I just sat back and waited..........

Glad to hear you got it Mike.