The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

[s/v Beth]

With all the other threads going around I would say:
The Frugal sailor does not go looking for crew- he either has it or goes without.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

With all the other threads going around I would say:
The Frugal sailor does not go looking for crew- he either has it or goes without.

[weavis]

Here is a good small Catamaran that can be made just perfect at a slightly lower offer price.

Hirondelle Mk 1 sailing catamaran 23ft yacht | eBay

[weavis]

Now this is a good purchase on the surface.
Right price, worth an offer.

Fisher 30 For Sale in Greece

[weavis]

Originally Posted by thomm225

$2,000 Bristol 27. Nice.

Learning how to roll and tip. Priceless.

Lots of mistakes this time but an improvement.

Looking good.!

The art of frugality is to get the RIGHT product at the right price for best value over time.

You were prepared to do the work and it looks great. Lovely job.

[sailorboy1]

Is the thread really about "low cost" small boats now?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Is the thread really about "low cost" small boats now?

I can only please one person each day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.

Maybe if you contributed instead of criticising..............

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Is the thread really about "low cost" small boats now?

I think of myself as a reasonably frugal boater--my slip is no frills and $100/mo and I do virtually all of my own work--but my boats have not been project boats or particularly cheap. Each was chosen to be a respected design in high demand with good resale and in ready to sail condition. I kept up with them, perhaps installed a few upgrades, but never a real refit, and I sold each for what I paid for it. So the cost was maintenance and the time value of money, but no fixer-upper projects.

There is a thread about a guy who spent 15 years building his dream (looks like good work), and he's not done yet. I'd love to say that is a great idea... but actually it really stinks. He'll have 18 years into at, I bet, without a mile under the keel, and as a one-off, he will never sell it for what it is worth. I doubt many people (a few) on this forum have 18 years in a cruising boat. While I'm certain he enjoys the craft, he missed 18 years of sailing. They're gone forever. In my case, that would have meant countless trips with my wife and daughter never happened. I can't even conceive of that loss and can't easily put a price on it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by weavis

Looking good.!

The art of frugality is to get the RIGHT product at the right price for best value over time.

You were prepared to do the work and it looks great. Lovely job.

Thanks.

I found out late that doing the job is part of the fun, and it's a great workout.


For the first 15 years, I just sailed and raced.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Is the thread really about "low cost" small boats now?

If you are not actually cruising why have a big boat?

Unless you are a liveaboard or like to take out lots of passengers.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by thomm225

If you are not actually cruising why have a big boat?

Unless you are a liveaboard or like to take out lots of passengers.

Well let me throw it back at you, if not actually cruising why have a boat? I think paying for a "cheap" small boat isn't frugal at all and is just an illusion. Low cost and cheap aren't the same as frugal in my mind.

I feel I'm very frugal, but have a boat I paid $115,000 for as a used boat. Why do I say I'm fugal:

- in 7 years I have NEVER paid for a slip anywhere
- I keep my boat on a mooring
- in 7 years I've paid maybe a total of $500 labor for work on my boat because I do everything (most of that money and all of the the last 6 years have been for sail work)
- my boat model is currently selling for more than I paid for mine over 4 years ago, I was a good shopper
- I sail more often and more miles than anyone in my marina, so I'm actually getting use of my boat

Yet I still spend $10-12,000 per year in the cost of owning, operating, maintaining, and upgrading my boat (and if I had say a 30' boat if would only save maybe $1000/yr instead of having my more comfortable
boat that we use more because it is comfortable) . Because a frugal sailor doesn't let their boat fall apart!

So I'm going repeat something I said pages ago: Being a cheap sailor with a small low cost boat and being a frugal sailor are not the same thing. Most things people call frugal are really just being cheap.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well let me throw it back at you, if not actually cruising why have a boat? I think paying for a "cheap" small boat isn't frugal at all and is just an illusion. Low cost and cheap aren't the same as frugal in my mind.

I feel I'm very frugal, but have a boat I paid $115,000 for as a used boat. Why do I say I'm fugal:

- in 7 years I have NEVER paid for a slip anywhere
- I keep my boat on a mooring
- in 7 years I've paid maybe a total of $500 labor for work on my boat because I do everything (most of that money and all of the the last 6 years have been for sail work)
- my boat model is currently selling for more than I paid for mine over 4 years ago, I was a good shopper
- I sail more often and more miles than anyone in my marina, so I'm actually getting use of my boat

Yet I still spend $10-12,000 per year in the cost of owning, operating, maintaining, and upgrading my boat (and if I had say a 30' boat if would only save maybe $1000/yr instead of having my more comfortable
boat that we use more because it is comfortable) . Because a frugal sailor doesn't let their boat fall apart!

So I'm going repeat something I said pages ago: Being a cheap sailor with a small low cost boat and being a frugal sailor are not the same thing. Most things people call frugal are really just being cheap.

I paid $2,000.00 for my boat. It gets me out of the city on the weekends during sailing season. It gives me a pretty good workout because it's small and moves around a lot especially in winds of say 25 knots plus.

Also, I like to stop by at night after work rather than going directly back inside after having been indoors all day.

I'm seriously thinking about an Ericson 35' though with 6' keel PHRF 123. This boat I may have to pay $30,000 plus for but it will probably have decent speed as compared to much more expensive boats. That could be considered Frugal I reckon.

Also the boat I have now is on the Mahina Offshore Sailing List which is sort of amazing ...............many newer boats are not.


http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

[sailorchic34]

You know I've actually spent $1000 dollars this last six months on maintenance, which for me is a ton of money.

For that $1000, I purchased and installed the following:

A new three burner stove
New 100 watt panel and a new PWM charge controller.
New 12V water pump
New Dyneema lifelines and bits plus Dyneema topping lift
New house bank of batteries (4 GC2)
New cables to tie the 6V's together.
A new SS boarding ladder, water deploy-able.

Most was from ebay though the batteries are cheap costco's and they are sweet.

I think that's being pretty Frugal.


But then I live, sail and work from the boat, Oddly did all three today too. Still 79 degrees inside the boat with the hatches open too.

[brownoarsman]

It may as well be a thread about small, used boats in good shape. How else would people get out there cost effectively? A frugal sailor I don't think would buy a big boat or one with a lot of amenities-they cost to own, operate, and repair. I sponge bath or dawn bath, for instance, and have manual pumps so all my systems are smaller: no large battery bank to feed water pumps, boat is small so electrical winches are laughable, boat is cheap so no need for hull insurance, etc.
For example, I got my Pearson 28-1 for $8,000 with sails, chain plates and keel step recently replaced, new stuffing box and cutlass, awl grip and kiwi nonskid applied a couple of years ago, and the boat pretty clean. I installed a tiller pilot, solar, super insulated cooler, chain/anchor and redid some bad bilge wiring for about $1,400. She's ready to cruise the Bahamas and held up great in 30 knot winds and 8 foot seas. So, for less than $10,000 (plus food and booze, restaurants, etc.) I'm cruising.
If I sell her, I can honestly strip all that new stuff off and sell it separately easily, and not impair the boat's value.
Sure the criticism is that it's more camping than cruising, but as a young single hander I've found a lot of better-equipped cruisers are so happy that I'm out cruising and like watching me sail on and off anchors and row around, that they're happy to cool my beers for me when I run out of ice I'm thankful for their generosity every time I crack a cold one!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by weavis

The art of frugality is to get the RIGHT product at the right price for best value over time.

I like Weavis' definition. Frugality is not an absolute measure of the least price for the most benefit. It is, as he says, about getting the best value for the needed (not wanted) item or service. It is also relative to your needs and capabilities.

A rich man, like out friend SB, can be frugal in a 100k boat, as can Sailorchic in her much more modest "yacht." I fall somewhere in between with my $40K leaky-teaky. But in all cases (as far as I understand) the owners are getting the right price for the best value of the things they require. They are (we are) living frugally.

Frugal living requires that we differentiate between wants and needs. Needs get fulfilled at the most efficient cost, be it in $$, barter, time or exchange. Fulfilling wants will push anyone, be they a millionaire or someone living on a government pension, away from frugality.