The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

[zboss]

I would like to add, we ARE talking 'cheap' here not frugal. By definition everything I have read so far in this thread points to being cheap, the definition which is "worth more than its cost"... vs. Frugal which is "sparing or economical with regard to money or food."

So when you are looking at a vessel that is going to provide the same million dollar landscape for 2K as the guy for 500K, you are talking getting that experience 'cheap'. The ACT of spending time finding the BEST boat at whatever price is being frugal.

If you are buying second hand sails instead of new sails - you are being cheap, not frugal. Being frugal is shopping around for the best 2nd hand sails.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by zboss

I would like to add, we ARE talking 'cheap' here not frugal. By definition everything I have read so far in this thread points to being cheap, the definition which is "worth more than its cost"... vs. Frugal which is "sparing or economical with regard to money or food."

So when you are looking at a vessel that is going to provide the same million dollar landscape for 2K as the guy for 500K, you are talking getting that experience 'cheap'. The ACT of spending time finding the BEST boat at whatever price is being frugal.

If you are buying second hand sails instead of new sails - you are being cheap, not frugal. Being frugal is shopping around for the best 2nd hand sails.

How about finding the exact boat you wanted (no compromise involved) at a better than excellent price? I'm sticking with frugal.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

How about finding the exact boat you wanted (no compromise involved) at a better than excellent price? I'm sticking with frugal.

The need to be cheap leads naturally to frugality if you have any smarts. Despite the socially negative connotations... there is nothing wrong with being cheap. Thats how we get to go sailing for those of us without that $100M in the bank!

[weavis]

Originally Posted by zboss

So when you are looking at a vessel that is going to provide the same million dollar landscape for 2K as the guy for 500K, you are talking getting that experience 'cheap'. .

You make the assumption that to view the landscape, there is a cost involved for the viewing platform in relation to the landscape.

That is demonstrably incorrect. Unless you have to pay for the view, I could observe it from a large plank of wood or an avon dinghy.

I fail to see how Im getting the experience for 'cheap'. Im getting it for what I think the view is worth to me in the purchase of the viewing platform for the job in hand according to my financial status and obligations.

One of my boats is a 26 foot Westerly Centaur. I have a huge double bed. I have an espresso machine. I do not have a compressor for my air tanks. I do have 2 smaller flat screen monitors. There is nothing "cheap" about the equipment I have on board, or indeed anything that I have bought or replaced. Everything has been done to an exacting standard, at the correct time for best value for money with all considerations taken into account, and getting the right product and not purchasing a brand name for the sake of it.

I purchased frugally at a cheaper price.

I do not have carbon fibre sails. I do however have some very nice coastal quality Dacron bought from a loft after a cancelled order and recut for my boat saving me about 46% over new and in the same material I would have purchased anyway after looking around for the best price. They hold their shape well. (I bought them as spares because the original Mainsail and jib have time left on them but I dont want to be caught out with a blown sail).

I would not go for the cheapest basic sail material, NOT because they are the cheapest but simply because they would not last more than a season or two.

My Pavoni espresso machine was bought in Mallorca at the cost of 92EUROS from this store. They actually had 3 of them so I bought all three and sold 2 for 140 STERLING each, which left mine free.My home Pavoni cost me well in excess of $400 a few years ago.

NOw I get what you are saying about the quality and decor of a 500K boat. Only this thread is not about people who are in that bracket. Id have to start parting with property and toys to afford that. But I dont want to regardless.

When Im ready to settle into my Med lifestyle full time, I MAY live on a boat or I may live onshore. There will not be 500K purchase in either a boat or a home. But I will have both. (OK I have the land bit sorted already).

[Azul]

Originally Posted by zboss

I would like to add, we ARE talking 'cheap' here not frugal. By definition everything I have read so far in this thread points to being cheap, the definition which is "worth more than its cost"... vs. Frugal which is "sparing or economical with regard to money or food."

So when you are looking at a vessel that is going to provide the same million dollar landscape for 2K as the guy for 500K, you are talking getting that experience 'cheap'. The ACT of spending time finding the BEST boat at whatever price is being frugal.

If you are buying second hand sails instead of new sails - you are being cheap, not frugal. Being frugal is shopping around for the best 2nd hand sails.

Cheap, the full definition from Webster's:


1
a : purchasable below the going price or the real value
b : charging or obtainable at a low price <a good cheap hotel> <cheap tickets>
c : depreciated in value (as by currency inflation) <cheap dollars>

2
: gained or done with little effort <a cheap victory> <talk is cheap>

3
a : of inferior quality or worth : tawdry, sleazy <cheap workmanship>
b : contemptible because of lack of any fine, lofty, or redeeming qualities <feeling cheap>
c : stingy <my cheap uncle>

4
of money : obtainable at a low rate of interest

People that miss the point of this thread could start a new thread "The Unfrugal Sailor." But then someone might get confused and call those sailors pompous instead of unfrugal.

[captain58sailin]

Back when I started knitting in order to get a pair of wool socks that would fit me properly, I discovered how expensive new wool was. I then started haunting "Sally Anns" and by going through their sweater collections, I could find 100% wool sweaters for about $3.00 USD, and then unravel them and make 2 or 3 pairs of socks from the old sweater. I got good enough to tell just by the feel if a sweater was pure wool or a blend, does that make me cheap? or Frugal?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Back when I started knitting in order to get a pair of wool socks that would fit me properly, I discovered how expensive new wool was. I then started haunting "Sally Anns" and by going through their sweater collections, I could find 100% wool sweaters for about $3.00 USD, and then unravel them and make 2 or 3 pairs of socks from the old sweater. I got good enough to tell just by the feel if a sweater was pure wool or a blend, does that make me cheap? or Frugal?

Real wool? You paid the full asking price without haggling and reused the product for another purpose.

Sounds frugal to me.

[JPA Cate]

Dale,

How it works for me, is that I just think that is them, and my boat is me. What others own is sort of irrelevant in the sense that they get to choose how they use their resources--and don't mess with me about how we use ours. I look at how they behave: are they generous with others, open hearted, good sense of humor? In a form of reverse snobbery, I look at the guys with the 5 million $ boats, and see if they're nice, or mean or stingy. You don't respect someone only because he/she accumulated a lot of money, but for the character traits they demonstrate, that helps.

We're quite attached to our boat, and I don't really care that she just had her 24th birthday last August. She is continually maintained.

If your boat pleases you and does what you ask of it, just laugh at yourself for being human, and let it go if you feel envious. You have a known quantity. After you've been on her a few months, you'll know how to find what you want in the dark with your eyes closed. Used to have a boat with two jib halyards, two spinnaker halyards, and two main halyards. Knew all of them by feel. True. You change boats, you have a whole big learning curve. And a whole new set of projects to consider. Of course you can rationalize whatever you want to do.

Maybe you're the kind of guy who is more susceptible to wanting to keep up with the Joneses. So decide for yourself if you really want to, and then change boats. Nobody from a forum can tell you what's right for you.

Ann

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by zboss

I would like to add, we ARE talking 'cheap' here not frugal. By definition everything I have read so far in this thread points to being cheap, the definition which is "worth more than its cost"... vs. Frugal which is "sparing or economical with regard to money or food."

Perhaps we're have two different discussions here (not the first time ), but I am talking about being frugal with my resources. I don't necessarily work hard to buy something as cheaply as possible. Being frugal means spending my limited resources on items that that I need which provide the highest benefit for the cost.

Sometimes being frugal means buying the most expensive thing out there. Sometimes it means going to the Sally-Ann for wool socks (OK, I've never done that, but good example ). It's not just about finding the best bargains. It's about using your limited resources on things you actually need (vs what you think your need, or want). And doing it as economically as possible.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Perhaps we're have two different discussions here (not the first time ),

er....... four actually.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by weavis

It doesnt matter if your boat is $500K or $2K, as long as its sound and seaworthy, the experience is the same.

That sure isn't the truth! Just like the experience isn't the same on 27' boat compared to a 50' boat.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

That sure isn't the truth! Just like the experience isn't the same on 27' boat compared to a 50' boat.

Hey Sailorboy, looks like you haven't been enjoying your tea and bacon sandwiches!

The experience on the 27' boat is probably much better if you want to have an adventure and stay in good shape.

Actually, here is my $2,000.00 27' boat in winds of 24 building to 30mph during a 50 mile run down the Chesapeake Bay (Onancock-Kiptopeke) and it was quite the experience. On a 50 footer, it may have been same ole same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd3E5-KyiZ8

[oldragbaggers]

I don't know about the definitions...cheap, frugal, thrifty, miserly, resourceful....whatever you want to call it, it is what it is.

We got our boat, the boat of our dreams +3' for a song, we are refitting it with exactly what we want, saving money by doing all our own work, which we genuinely enjoy (except the engine rebuild). We are always aiming to get the very best of everything we need, but buying nothing that we don't, and always on the lookout for the best possible bargain. She will be modest and small by many people's standards, with maybe less amenities than some would deem necessary, but beautiful in our eyes, safe, sturdy, comfortable, well equipped (by our standards), paid for and OURS. We will have adequate funds to enjoy her in whatever fashion suits us, but it has never suited us to spend money in a flashy or unnecessary way. We have just never needed all that to be happy. What we are buying is freedom, and we consider it a bargain. And whatever label anyone wants to put on that is just fine with us.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

............. And whatever label anyone wants to put on that is just fine with us.

There is no label for enjoying life...

[weavis]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Hey Sailorboy, looks like you haven't been enjoying your tea and bacon sandwiches!

The experience on the 27' boat is probably much better if you want to have an adventure and stay in good shape.

Actually, here is my $2,000.00 27' boat in winds of 24 building to 30mph during a 50 mile run down the Chesapeake Bay (Onancock-Kiptopeke) and it was quite the experience. On a 50 footer, it may have been same ole same.

Tom
Onancock High School
Class of '74

some ride Tom!