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Old 06-02-2015, 16:09   #121
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Yep, when the gusts got above 30 the waves were breaking right at the stern so I would just steer dead downwind when I heard them break.

I never got the chance to lower the main so I just kept sailing for maybe 6 hours on the tiller. Boat speed was between 6-7 knots most of the time.

It laid down later, and it was nice and warm coming around the Cape Charles Channel entrance markers headed to Kiptopeke.

This was the trip north 3 days earlier. Winds NE and building:


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Old 06-02-2015, 17:49   #122
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Back when I started knitting in order to get a pair of wool socks that would fit me properly, I discovered how expensive new wool was. I then started haunting "Sally Anns" and by going through their sweater collections, I could find 100% wool sweaters for about $3.00 USD, and then unravel them and make 2 or 3 pairs of socks from the old sweater. I got good enough to tell just by the feel if a sweater was pure wool or a blend, does that make me cheap? or Frugal?
Cheap is the description of a relative cost to achieve the same value, frugal is the description of an act. So, understanding that wool was expensive and you could get the same wool socks cheaper by knitting them is 'cheap', actually learning how to knit and going to sally anns and doing the sweater thing is being frugal.

Unless of course Knitting itself provided value like a hobby.
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Old 06-02-2015, 23:54   #123
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I am one of those "results oriented" people. I couldn't get the kind of socks I wanted on the open market, and I was willing to learn the skills needed to obtain the socks that would fit me tight enough that they wouldn't slide down in my Xtra Tuffs, plus whilst sitting on the wheel watch it kept my hands busy and eyes open. I also learned to knit wool hats that I managed to sell a few of and of course give to friends and family. I went as far as building my own spinning wheel and getting a drum card, and was able to trade fish to my cousin for mohair goat's wool. Then I started working in warmer water in the winter time and no longer needed the items. Gave away the wheel, drum card, & knitting needles. Still have some of the socks 14 years later.
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Old 07-02-2015, 00:21   #124
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Capt 58 sailing:

Great story. What I like about it is the willingness to pick up a new skill, enjoy it, give presents to folks you like, and recycle the objects back into a community when you're finished with them. You've given yourself and others pleasure. What a great deal!


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Sailorboy1 :

I think the sails themselves would be different between a 27 footer and a 50 footer, as generally larger boats are more stable.

Where I disagree with the suggestion is that somehow it might be more fun on a 50 footer, well that depends. Assuming the 27 footer is--as weavis stipulated--a well found boat, then it would quite possibly take longer, and be more vigorous motion, which could equate to more fatigue. It partly depends on what kind of shape the sailor is in. If you're a lean, skinny pickle, wiry, tough and strong one, it's probably a lot easier for you, than if you're heavier than you know you should be, and not fit (even for good reasons), when you would have less resilience for handling the motion. However, the fun quotient is often higher on the smaller boats. A whole lot is easier, including costs, smaller sails to handle, smaller winches to sheet them with, and so on. Jim and I have been blessed to have too much fun on all our boats, and presently, we think we have comfort. However, we had a friend with a beautiful timber schooner aboard one time in Baie Kuto in New Caledonia, who remarked how lively our boat is at anchor, in a somewhat disapproving way. But it was true, his vessel was extremely stable at anchor, and we do dance around
noticeably.

I guess this points up another aspect of frugality: the ability to work with what you have and make it work for you, even though it doesn't meet your idea of perfection.

Ann
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:37   #125
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Capt 58 sailing:

Great story. What I like about it is the willingness to pick up a new skill, enjoy it, give presents to folks you like, and recycle the objects back into a community when you're finished with them. You've given yourself and others pleasure. What a great deal!


_________


But it was true, his vessel was extremely stable at anchor, and we do dance around
noticeably.

I guess this points up another aspect of frugality: the ability to work with what you have and make it work for you, even though it doesn't meet your idea of perfection.

Ann
You do know a well found, even small Catamaran would take out 90% of the dancing?

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Old 07-02-2015, 03:04   #126
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yep, when the gusts got above 30 the waves were breaking right at the stern so I would just steer dead downwind when I heard them break.

I never got the chance to lower the main so I just kept sailing for maybe 6 hours on the tiller. Boat speed was between 6-7 knots most of the time.
Yes, well the bristol 27 is a good boat, and very strong. The glass is half inch to one inch at the keel and deck is an inch thick. For a small boat which has much lower stresses basically it's much stronger than most cruising boats you will find (and slower) but some boats are much stronger.

The worst I was in was 45 knots gusting 55 about 200 miles north of new zealand. At this point, the boat at times got out of control, the swells were up to mast height, and breakers could see the curl. One point a breaker struck beam on, flexing the hull by a few inches breaking internal plywood. I did have some rough weather sailing around the north island and in the cook strait.

I have been aground in swell numerous times by accident, and have always been surprised at how minimal the damage is after being picked and dropped repeatedly on boulders.
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Old 14-02-2015, 23:36   #127
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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You do know a well found, even small Catamaran would take out 90% of the dancing?

Yes, weavis,

Actually there are many open roadstead anchorages wherein I have seen this....and it's one of the good things about catamarans.

However, I figure I'm an owd bitch, and learning new tricks might be a bit beyond me. I guess the bottom line is that I'd rather figure out how to keep her from dancing so much than have to learn how to sail a cat competently.

Thanks for the flowers.

Ann
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Old 15-02-2015, 02:32   #128
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Yes, weavis,

Actually there are many open roadstead anchorages wherein I have seen this....and it's one of the good things about catamarans.

However, I figure I'm an owd bitch, and learning new tricks might be a bit beyond me. I guess the bottom line is that I'd rather figure out how to keep her from dancing so much than have to learn how to sail a cat competently.

Thanks for the flowers.

Ann
LOL Ann.

Its a funny thing about boats. My first time on a Catamaran, I recall thinking that I had to relearn everything I knew about boats and sailing in order to control the football pitch I was standing in a corner of.

The reality, as I found out, was that a Cat is just a wider boat and the hardest learning curve was to accept that I didnt have to lean anymore.

OK, there are a few difference, but surprisingly few. For all the dyed in the wool long term mono sailors, Its a different feel and a different set of responses in certain situations, apart from that, its just another variant of a sailing vessel. Some never get used to the motion and some older Cats were not built to sail into the wind efficiently and thus have left a legacy of ineffective sailing ability which has been overcome with modern designs.

It is fun though throwing comments and flowers.
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Old 15-02-2015, 05:57   #129
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

In reading a lot of the threads on CF, I see that people continue to mix up full-time cruisers and having a boat for part-time use. This thread was to encourage individuals who wish to go boating at weekends and holidays to take the plunge by being careful in their choices and only getting what is really necessary for safe boating and economical use.

There is obviously a difference in having a boat for full-time cruising and live aboard both in cost and equipment and having one for the purposes as mentioned above. That said, it is still possible to be frugal in choosing a vessel at the best value for money within your price range.

For me as an individual with an average income, I understand the principle of being restricted in my choices by an aversion to borrowing money, and by what cash is available without having to sell assets. In reading yachting magazines and online forums, one would think that the minimum starting price for a well found yacht or catamaran is over $200,000!

This is fine if you have the credit stream or cash to enter the market at that price point, but for the rest of us this is just a pipe dream. For the working person myself included, I see boating and sailing as an enjoyable hobby much the same as caravanning or using an RV. To this end the vessel has to meet certain safety standards and equipment needs to be sufficient for any unforeseen event. It is not a requirement of owning a boat to have the latest electronics or water maker or any of the myriad newfangled gadgets that make life easier on board.

last week a friend of mine purchased a Catalac 8m for 16,000. The survey stated the boat had structural integrity, and recommended replacing a couple of standing rigging wires, a rewire and the resealing of a couple of windows. Yesterday, I went to see the vessel on the hard and to drop off some filters and I had picked up for his outboard, and was amazed at how much better it looked for a good scrubbing and cleaning and buffing of the hulls. The new owner is a carpenter/builder by trade, and already is beginning to transform the interior with the modification of the existing floor plan and new wood replacing some of the aged panels. One of his plans is to replace the ceiling padding with lightweight wood panels in the design of his own making.

John is quite an experience sailor. Combined with his knowledge of woodworking, is a tip he passed on to me that he was not going to varnish the ceiling wood. He was going to liquid finish it with a sealer, and this would prevent condensation forming and dripping down. I just passed this tip onto you because it may be helpful.

For myself I am happy with the vessel that does not require huge sails and the necessity to go forward all the time to deal with sail issues. I like sales that can be pulled up, and reduced as the wind rises from the cockpit. Replacing the sails is much cheaper as well. Rigging costs are cheaper, line runs are cheaper, and mast lengths are usually smaller. There is also the benefit of being able to lower the mast single-handedly and quickly if required.

A couple of years ago when I was looking at the Gemini 105, I was really impressed by the layout and the space. I still think it is a lot of space for a single person or a couple with room for guests. However this is my personal view as another commentor on cruisers forum was less than impressed with the space for himself and his wife. He thought it very small for a cruising cat. I guess it comes down to expectations and usage. It basically is what you are prepared to deal with and whether or not compactness is something you can live with. I come from the school of thought that suggests finding a vessel of the minimum size you are happy with, and can control single-handed with ease, is better than an oversized vessel that leaves you anxious.

A lot of experienced sailors on CF discussed the merits and problems associated with different vessels and give their opinions as to why they would not have a certain boat. Invariably these comments come from long distance sailors, and whilst I read their comments carefully and note them, they actually do the frugal sailor a power of good when it comes to purchasing one of these vessels which are available for a good price and will only be used for local and coastal work. For example, I allowed myself to be talked out of purchasing the Gemini 105 because it was a "lightly built" and not very sturdy sea vessel. The reality was that for the use I wanted it, the vessel was perfect, not to mention it has crossed the Atlantic and Pacific many times.

So for those of us wanting to sail on a limited income at weekends, we must be prepared to examine each and every vessel on its own merits and compare that to the usage we want out of it.

Sailing is an expensive hobby but it need not be if we choose it not to be.
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Old 15-02-2015, 10:29   #130
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Nice post Weaves. One of the take home messages I get here is that knowledge can be a substitute for money. If you know how to use materials, esp old materials and make them first rate you are going to save a lot of bread.
It pays to be nice to the old fart around the docks. They can teach you so much.
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Old 15-02-2015, 16:43   #131
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Sailing is an expensive hobby but it need not be if we choose it not to be.


Exactly, I do all the work on my boat, research and more research, then make the best educated decision on how to spent the money I have. I buy the best products I can afford and sometimes it takes some sacrifice to get it.

I scour craigslist for deals and so far have done pretty well finding most everything I wanted new or lightly used for a fraction of what it cost in the store. It takes patience and the require time to look thru the listings. I don't cut corners but save $$$ where I can. Being frugal is the only way I could afford to have the boat I do and honestly I find it satisfying.
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Old 15-02-2015, 16:46   #132
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Hey Sailorboy, looks like you haven't been enjoying your tea and bacon sandwiches!

The experience on the 27' boat is probably much better if you want to have an adventure and stay in good shape.

Actually, here is my $2,000.00 27' boat in winds of 24 building to 30mph during a 50 mile run down the Chesapeake Bay (Onancock-Kiptopeke) and it was quite the experience. On a 50 footer, it may have been same ole same.

nice video Tom, wish we had wind like that on the bay all the time. How's the painting? I'd like to swing by and check it out. Tried a few weeks ago but marina is all fenced in now.
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Old 15-02-2015, 18:07   #133
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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nice video Tom, wish we had wind like that on the bay all the time. How's the painting? I'd like to swing by and check it out. Tried a few weeks ago but marina is all fenced in now.

It would have been nice though to have the extra 2000-3000lbs your Alberg 30 has in those winds!

No painting yet. I just finished the sanding.

I'm not going to go crazy on the paint. I just want to put something over the old gelcoat besides peeling paint. I bought a gallon of Easypoxy for the topside hull.

The original gel coat was beige.

When are you putting your boat back in the water?
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Old 16-02-2015, 14:10   #134
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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It would have been nice though to have the extra 2000-3000lbs your Alberg 30 has in those winds!

When are you putting your boat back in the water?
Its gonna be at least a year, if not 2. I am going to recore the deck where needed, completely refit the interior and exterior, maybe a repower of some sort, new portlights and whatever else need attention. Luckily the rigging and mast have already been done.
Just finished the boat shed. Started this weekend documenting with pictures where everything is currently located. Time and money will determine the duration she'll be on the hard.

I did get a part time gig as a ferry captain so that will definitely help fund the refit.

I am going to be as frugal as I can with the refit, I will use the best material I can afford and move on. I want a functional cruiser, not a work of art. I will be doing all of the work myself so it will be quite the learning experience.

Maybe I get catch a sail or 2 on the Bristol
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Old 16-02-2015, 15:02   #135
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Maybe I get catch a sail or 2 on the Bristol
Sure sounds like a plan if I don't let my son have it.

He has been battling a medical problem since July and may need a change of scenery from a hospital room or his room.

He's an artist and twice the natural sailor I am (he crewed for me during races as early as 10 years old), and he is laid back enough to enjoy cruising.

I already know where a Ranger 28 is that I like..............
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