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Old 03-02-2015, 06:22   #76
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Think "Scrooge" ie being not just sparing with spending, but stingy. ... How many people could enrich their lives tremendously by spending a little more of the funds they are accumulating?
I'd call these people cheap, or as you say "stingy", not frugal. Frugal is knowing the value of things, not just the cost. Frugal people know how to spend their resources (money, time, energy, etc). on things that bring value to their lives.
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:47   #77
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Some people know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing.
Perfect
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:49   #78
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Going to throw a wrench in the subject here Weavis.
Understand your views on being Frugal, but there is also the satisfaction of working your ass off to purchase what you want apposed to what you need.
I cant count the amount of times that I've gone into a workaholic mode because that item, I wanted, was a fair amount more than what I could have "gotton by with"..
For myself, sometimes that emotional satisfaction of working harder to get what I want, gives the plan a greater meaning............
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:58   #79
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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But back to the frugal thing, often frugal means buying high quality and sometimes paying a lot for it, But it's lifespan may be several times the less expensive item.
I can't imagine a frugal sailor buying a new boat though. I've bought all kinds of stuff off of the classifieds here, and have yet to be stung, have always gotten a good deal, but then I don't mind wearing someone else's foulies if they are good quality, often some sailors simply "swallow the anchor" and sell good stuff for very low prices, I sometimes think they are glad knowing it will be used.


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I absolutely agree with this, and this is also our approach to being frugal. Once we determine what we "need" (which is most often quite different from what we would "want" if money were no object) we always try to buy the best quality that we can afford. Sometimes that means giving up something else that has been deemed much less important or unnecessary. This has always paid off for us. We also don't mind buying second hand, and I would much rather buy something second hand that is of high quality if it is in good condition, than to buy something new for the same amount but of lesser quality.

We have also found over the years that things often come our way because we try to make ourselves available to lend a hand whenever possible. Some years ago we had a grateful friend who had bought many yards of linen color Sunbrella to do a Peterson 42. When his wife decided she preferred burgundy they gave us the whole bolt of linen Sunbrella. I have done upholstery and canvas for 2 boats from that bolt of fabric and still have some left. This has happened on more than one occassion. We do the same in kind and have given away a fair amount of parts and gear over the years to fellow boaties. What goes around comes around.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:35   #80
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
There's been nothing but praise so far for 'frugallers', so I am going to play the devil's advocate and chime in with an alternative view .

The other side of the frugal coin is the hoarding of assets, sparing of spending when funds are sufficient and it would improve the quality of life to do so.

Think "Scrooge" ie being not just sparing with spending, but stingy.

The sad tale of an elderly couple that lived across the road from us springs to mind. They were frugal with heating costs, keeping just one small room of their large home heated sparingly in winter and not installing central heating. They embraced being frugal with a passion. No home help was ever employed, no holidays or outings were taken. The husband eventually died of emphysema during a particularly cold winter. When his wife passed away shortly after, assets totalling millions went to charity.

Yes, they were frugal, but sadly so. Hoarding of funds is not admirable either. I think a balance needs to be struck.

How many people could enrich their lives tremendously by spending a little more of the funds they are accumulating?
Yup
Its best to advocate balance.

I would not call what your neighbours did 'frugal'. It was more miserly. Doing without for the sake of it is pathological.

This is for the peeps, well all us of really, that have a fixed income and want to get on the water. My neighbour, family of 3, modest income, wanted to get into sailing. I went with him all over Wales last year and he finally plumped for a gorgeous Seawych 19 footer with a trailer. (I have had one of these in the 80s so vouched for it) I think he paid $1600. He got a good deal. Previous owner had gone beserk on making it nice. Came with lifejackets and autopilot and compass and depth sounder and 4 horse outboard plus loats of other stuff.
So now he sails in a well fitted and sound vessel, sometimes we sail in tandem. Then he brings it home. Free berthing. He is thinking of trailering it down to Cornwall in the summer to his parents house and sailing around there.

Any work needed doing he does in accord with what NEEDS doing and he balances costs accordingly. He reckons all in it now stands him at nothing considering all the fun he has had sailing. He does not do without, but finds that he can get the equipment with a little looking around at a great price, perhaps not the newest or shiniest, but buying old stock and a bit of elbow grease has made his boat sparkle.

Boat: $1600.
bits and pieces $250
Insurance: On his home and car insurance.
Petrol to get to the water. Maybe $60
Replace tyre for trailer $16.

I gave him one of my spare single burner gas stoves and 2 cans of butane. Its nicely fitted on his boat now.

He is not mean with money, he just does not have a lot. Not a pro carpenter but is precise and clean and the work he has done internally is a credit to him.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:39   #81
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Going to throw a wrench in the subject here Weavis.
Understand your views on being Frugal, but there is also the satisfaction of working your ass off to purchase what you want apposed to what you need.
I cant count the amount of times that I've gone into a workaholic mode because that item, I wanted, was a fair amount more than what I could have "gotton by with"..
For myself, sometimes that emotional satisfaction of working harder to get what I want, gives the plan a greater meaning............
I dont disagree on any level. Sometimes people on low/fixed income have to work harder to get the boat in order to start.........
Its a fixed goal and to get there means you work more, cut back on other things and just keep the vision firmly in view.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:59   #82
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
There's been nothing but praise so far for 'frugallers', so I am going to play the devil's advocate and chime in with an alternative view .

The other side of the frugal coin is the hoarding of assets, sparing of spending when funds are sufficient and it would improve the quality of life to do so.

Think "Scrooge" ie being not just sparing with spending, but stingy.

The sad tale of an elderly couple that lived across the road from us springs to mind. They were frugal with heating costs, keeping just one small room of their large home heated sparingly in winter and not installing central heating. They embraced being frugal with a passion. No home help was ever employed, no holidays or outings were taken. The husband eventually died of emphysema during a particularly cold winter. When his wife passed away shortly after, assets totalling millions went to charity.

Yes, they were frugal, but sadly so. Hoarding of funds is not admirable either. I think a balance needs to be struck.

How many people could enrich their lives tremendously by spending a little more of the funds they are accumulating?
Angela, you are echoing exactly the situation with the "cheap" relative I spoke of in a previous post. And he did exactly the same. They used one kerosene heater in the living room of their large house in the New York winters (even though they had central heat) because he "refused to give his money to those bast--rds at ConEd." They rarely ate out, drove the same old car for 20+ years, always had the same furniture they bought when first married, never shopped for clothing unless absolutely essential, rarely took vacations and when they did it was to "visit" someone so they would have a free place to stay. This wasn't out of necessity. They had money. He wanted to retire early, which he did at 50, but died 3 years later. The relatives that inherited his money blew through it in no time flat. Would have been much better if he had managed to enjoy some of what he earned himself.

I think that again distinguishes the difference between cheap and frugal. Frugal is often, but certainly not always, a child of necessity. There are many people who just will never be able to go any other way. Sometimes people are frugal in one area of life in order to make money available in other areas of their life. I also know many people who have money and are frugal, which is why they have money. But that doesn't always mean cheap. They provide adequately for their needs and enjoy their life, they're just not extravagant and don't need a lot to be happy.

But I think that the audience Weavis is trying to reach with this thread is the one who thinks that boating and/or cruising is only for the rich and out of their reach based on what they see in the slick yachting magazines and even on forums like this one where people often talk about their new $20K suit of sails, the new radar arch supporting a gajillion dollars in solar panals that, together with the new genset, will support the myriad of electrical gadgets that rival what I have in my house. That, and the half million $$ they have in savings, that they don't know whether is enough to support a cruising lifestyle...... (WTH....do you really need a half million to feel comfortable cutting ties? If you do, I better stay the heck where I am.) I always scratch my head when I see those threads, just because it is so disconnected with my reality. But I have always been somewhat of a minimalist by nature. Sometimes I think growing up poor was a blessing.

I dare say that many, if not most, of the more accomplished world cruisers have never had a cash pot like that. The demographics have changed so much over the years I have been observing and interacting with the cruising community. The boats have gotten bigger, the amenties more extensive, and it seems the budgets of many cruisers have increased exponentially. (I would say that we fit into this category as well. The buget we will have as retirees will far exceed what we would have had if we had gone in younger years.) A newcomer to the community might not realize that this is a relatively new phenomenon and that most of the more accomplished cruisers of the past largely cruised on much smaller boats, with few conveniences, and often no cash reserves. What they lacked in "resources" they made up for with "resourcefulness."

I think this thread is a refreshing dose of reality for those that don't mind taking the simple road and need to know that it doesn't necessarily mean a life of poverty and austerity. There are still many out there today doing it this way. They're my heros. With a bit of creative frugalling and some hard work and self-sufficiency, a good life afloat is certainly possible without being wealthy.

It's probably due to the "circles" we run in, but friends we have had that have cut the land ties and gone on extended cruises, none of them have been wealthy. Several have had modest retirement incomes and one (a family of four) took the money they had made on some real estate investments and, by being frugal, funded a 5 year cruise on an old wooden Kettenberg 50 that they worked hard to fix up. When the money was gone they returned home and went back to work, but they returned with a lifetime of memories.
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:30   #83
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Remember this. If you are in the Bahamas in your 27 foot older vessel standing you at $7K looking at a fellow C.F'r in his 35 foot vessel standing him at $150K...... You are still in the Bahamas.[/QUOTE]
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:36   #84
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Just saw this on ebayuk.

Engine is seized and it needs going through carefully. If Hull and rigging is ok then the rest is clean up and replacing where necessary..

$2800
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:36   #85
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

whoops! Or my 35 Foot O'day ($29k) Great points! Also I love the fact I am not renting my own property from the government! (prop tax)
and insuring it for 10,000 per month! (high florida rates).
We love the live aboard life style and made many friends that do the same.
It's been a year and would not trade it for the world. We started here in this forum Jan 2014 and bought our boat in Feb. Learning is half of the fun. Thank you all in this forum for your help and thank you Boot Key blow boaters for your guidance.
Dan and Lupe on the "Risky Lady"



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Remember this. If you are in the Bahamas in your 27 foot older vessel standing you at $7K looking at a fellow C.F'r in his 35 foot vessel standing him at $150K...... You are still in the Bahamas.
[/QUOTE]
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:38   #86
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

wow, a good scrubbing would be worth another 2K!


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Just saw this on ebayuk.

Engine is seized and it needs going through carefully. If Hull and rigging is ok then the rest is clean up and replacing where necessary..

$2800
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:39   #87
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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wow, a good scrubbing would be worth another 2K!
I believe these go for $27K upwards........
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:42   #88
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

wow over 4000 post, is there a place i can read your post?
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:43   #89
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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wow over 4000 post, is there a place i can read your post?
I would not waste your time........

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Old 03-02-2015, 15:44   #90
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

You are preaching to the choir! I'm so glad to hear others who share my thoughts on frugal sailing.

There are many excellent older boats out there, especially here in Ontario Canada. Many people are scared to buy an older boat. And truthfully, you better know what you are looking at. I bought an older boat for $100 and sailed it 100 miles home with my two toddlers for crew. It needed tons of cosmetic work and elbow grease, which just made the deal sweeter for me, because that's my idea of fun. My current boat has everything from my wish list...diesel engine, new main, chartplotter, autohelm...and I bought it for a song from a very nice man who's brand new boat had arrived and had to sell his old boat immediately. I swear he paid more for the (brand new) electronics than I paid for the entire boat.

I've always said its about the sailing, you don't have to own the boat to have fun. I recently fulfilled my dream of crossing the Atlantic ocean. I crewed for a friend, and it cost me nothing except my time.

I wouldn't know what to do with a brand new boat...fixing things and making my old boat new again is most of the fun. I hope I never get to the end of my "to do" list. In the meantime, I'm sailing as much as I can...which is a lot. You won't find my boat sitting at the dock when the weather is fine and there's a nice breeze.
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