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Old 25-10-2015, 13:41   #241
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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A few on Cf dont get it.

I just sat back and waited..........



Glad to hear you got it Mike.

Too true. To me it comes down to understanding "wants" vs "needs". As they say, the cheap person is the one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Frugality has little to do with being cheap. It's about understanding your needs, and using your resources (all resources, not just money) wisely.


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Old 25-10-2015, 14:36   #242
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Spot on !!!
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Old 25-10-2015, 16:13   #243
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Assuming you have a solid, paid for boat.
I'm hanging my hat on that, I see too many who think if it's more than 5 years old then it't too old, so they have to have a job to make boat payments.
My Father told me many years ago if I want to give myself a 20% raise, get on a a cash basis for everything. Cash gets the best price and no interest, if you can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it.
Yes that sometimes means saving and or lowering your sights a little. Don't even possess a credit card, they are not needed and are wasteful


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Old 25-10-2015, 16:58   #244
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

We were definitely NOT frugal or cheap before moving onto the boat. Even after the first year I have to say we were not frugal. I'm a gadget guy, I like gadgets. I like gadgets that flash, make noise, do cool things etc. I'm always interested in what next around that proverbial corner.

This has been a very very hard change for me and much less so for my wife.

It's still hard - I walked into a meeting at big client last week and I was literally the only one that had not spent $1000 on a new cell phone. I'm still using a two year old phone... GASP! The horror.

I'm finally realizing that if we want to go sailing long term we are going to have to learn to be frugal AND cheap (same goal but different applications) if we want to succeed. This also means learning new skills, taking on projects that we would not have previously thought of doing ourselves, simply waiting for the best price, and simply going without.

However, I went out and bought a case of PBR last week. I choked it down and decided that maybe being cheap when it comes to my beer is not the right application
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Old 25-10-2015, 20:08   #245
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Having chosen a career that I loved, but which never did pay very much, I understand frugality. I've often remarked to others that if ever I were to write a book, it would be on the alternative way to becoming wealthy, by spending wisely.

As I head inexorably toward retirement it occurs to me that money isn't the prized commodity it once was, my time is more valuable. Another year fixing up an old boat would be one less year I could enjoy traveling. I'm sure we all know that guy - the one who never left, and just kept building the boat of his dreams until the day he dropped.

Of course if one has neither money nor time he is trapped, and must abandon the dream or downsize it to something achievable. My first yacht was like that; I didn't have the wherewithal or the energy to complete the job. I still own it but for now concentrate on a smaller and more attainable project.

There are distractions, too. Sometimes you can suddenly see a bargain that is outside your grasp, by virtue of having committed your time and resources elsewhere. So be it, let someone else have it. The greatest enemy of freedom is hoarding stuff that you "might need one day." What seems like a bargain can become just another restriction, one more item that needs attention lest it decay, or be stolen. Even the wealthiest person knows that they can't take it with them.

What do we really need anyhow? Food, shelter, a bit of friendly company, and a worthwhile goal. All else is vanity.
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Old 26-10-2015, 00:35   #246
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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...What do we really need anyhow? Food, shelter, a bit of friendly company, and a worthwhile goal...
Don't forget a yacht and all its equipment.
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Old 27-10-2015, 03:53   #247
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Don't forget a yacht and all its equipment.
Goes without saying. My yacht is my shelter. By not paying dirt-dweller rent I can afford to eat better and equip it. The worthwhile goal is to see more of the world and meet interesting people along the way.
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Old 27-10-2015, 04:56   #248
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

You guys are funny with the earth Dweller comments

As an Army Aviator, we called them "Earth Pigs"
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Old 27-10-2015, 09:45   #249
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Being debt free is probably the only wise financial achievement I've ever done. Debt itself isn't necessarily bad if it allows you to achieve a needed thing, but it must be sustainable and manageable and short term.

The problem with renting your boat from the bank is that this way of life becomes quite seductive. 'I don't ever have to pay for anything, just rent it.' Of course, that's when "they've" got you. What you end up doing is paying for the debt with the time you have to live.


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Old 28-09-2016, 06:53   #250
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Old 28-09-2016, 07:29   #251
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I had forgotten all about this thread...
I miss Dave from Jersey... a great contributor...
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Old 28-09-2016, 07:32   #252
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

For English members-here is a great boat...



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Old 28-09-2016, 08:33   #253
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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... Debt itself isn't necessarily bad if it allows you to achieve a needed thing....
Or if the "thing" appreciates or has investment value.

My homes have gained about 5-7% in value over the past 30 years, far exceeding inflation. Half of my net worth is my home, without which I could not retire at this age.

I've sold my boats for what I paid for them, but they certainly did not gain value. They lost, corrected for inflation, and far worse if I included costs.

But in my homes, even after including taxes and utilities, I have lived rent free for decades. Quite frugal.

Of course, this depends on location. In my case, the wooded back yard is more zen than the marina, the park a few miles away rivals any anchorage.

I guess I like dirt too. I'm good with that.
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Old 28-09-2016, 09:22   #254
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Assuming you have a solid, paid for boat.
I'm hanging my hat on that, I see too many who think if it's more than 5 years old then it't too old, so they have to have a job to make boat payments.
My Father told me many years ago if I want to give myself a 20% raise, get on a a cash basis for everything. Cash gets the best price and no interest, if you can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it.
Yes that sometimes means saving and or lowering your sights a little. Don't even possess a credit card, they are not needed and are wasteful


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Things have changed over the years. I would have agreed with this 10-20 years ago when I dealt on a cash basis, but today I now run all my expenses through credit cards with point systems, cash back or travel points attached. We pay them off every month, pay zero interest, zero fees and usually end up with 4-6 airfares and a couple thousand dollars of free travel money each year. In addition, the cards have no foreign exchange or transaction fees unlike exchanging cash in foreign countries.

It's easy to become "penny wise, pound foolish" in the fugality biz. IMHO
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Old 29-09-2016, 02:55   #255
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Or if the "thing" appreciates or has investment value.

My homes have gained about 5-7% in value over the past 30 years, far exceeding inflation. Half of my net worth is my home, without which I could not retire at this age. . . .
Using debt to buy an asset magnifies both profits and losses (why they call it "leverage"), and real estate can go down, as well as up, in value. You can make a lot of money by buying the right piece of real estate using as much debt as the bank will give you, and holding it long enough to get through several cycles. I bought two rental houses my very first year out of law school, with 90% mortgages, and these assets have increased in value more than 400% since then, about double the rate of inflation. So using debt in that particular case was a great move, allowing me to buy assets I could never have bought without other people's money. The mortgages were paid off by tenants and wiped out by inflation and capital appreciation of the assets.

But if you buy property with a 90% mortgage, it only has to go down in value by 10% in order for you to lose all of your investment.

So you have to be careful with real estate, which is a fairly tricky asset class.
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