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Old 27-03-2015, 20:31   #211
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Nice post Buzzman.

The $21K catamaran: Build a cat fast and cheap
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Old 27-03-2015, 20:49   #212
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Seen the $21K cat - that's bare hull, though.....and required ages to construct that a full-time worker might not be able to provide.

I seriously think that it is the longer hours we are forced to work these days, and the necessity to spend every remaining hour with family, that has largely killed off the home boatbuilding industry for most people, other than the retired or near-retired (hello!).

People these days are conditioned by society, advertising and peer pressure (and the need for status) to only contemplate the 'right now' options, and this is not conducive to getting into sailoring on the cheap, but it does suit going into debt to buy a 150HP outboard-powered 20ft 'fishing and lifestyle' boat that can entertain the whole family.

Guess what's selling in our boating market at the moment..?? Even a 5m 'tinny' with a 50HP outboard is around $20K on the road, although around a quarter of this on the 2nd-hand market, where the 'frugal fisherman' shops....

Again, housing is super-expensive here in Oz, with an average-condition older house not less than AU$300K, and double that in Sydney, even in the outer and less desirable suburbs.

As a result, younger people, and especially those with school age children, tend to be either renting or mortgaged out to the max, with little spare cash and even less time, especially after the, shopping, sports and extra-curricular activities are fitted into the weekend.

Our local sailing club tends to only operate on a Sunday afternoon, as everyone has other commitments the rest of the time. And all they do is race around the cans, the competitive nature of which is not generally conducive to good inter-family relations. And they have no on-hard storage options that might encourage others to get involved. Cost of waterfront land for development.... Sigh.

It's kind of a perfect storm situation, where everything possible is factored against the notion of owning and using a sailing boat.

When you're 'time poor' you want to be travelling faster than 6-7kts - and power boats answer so many of the criticisms of boating in general:
- easier to launch and rig
- faster to get to point B, faster to get back again, allowing more time at B
- easier to maintain (all 'glass and stainless, annual service on the motor)
- these days have fridges, lighting and cooker built in
- more 'versatile' in that they can tow inflatable toys to entertain the kids, provide a fishing platform for Dad, and a cosy and cool hideaway for SWMBO, under the bimini, with a cold glass of wine and the iPad......

Stereotyping? Moi?

I think it is probably more pertinent to ask 'how do we encourage more people' into sailing, to slow down, see the world differently etc etc....

Or are we pushing a turd-boulder up the face of a tsunami..??
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Old 27-03-2015, 20:55   #213
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzman View Post

I think it is probably more pertinent to ask 'how do we encourage more people' into sailing, to slow down, see the world differently etc etc....

Or are we pushing a turd-boulder up the face of a tsunami..??
We do best to reach out to those who want to do it. Its not our job to convince, after all, a mans mind changed against his will is a man of the same opinion still.

Given your circumstances, maybe finding a boat partner is the answer. I can go to any boat yard here in the UK and find abandoned boats from $A300. A good clean and a cheap boat is yours.

SOMEONE will have a boat they dont want and will let it go....... just keep looking.

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Old 27-03-2015, 21:02   #214
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I have three boats.....only one of which sails at the moment, and that's the kids Sabot..!

My 14ft dinghy awaits a refurb and the 24ft tri awaits a Lotto win....

In the meantime I sail OPB's (other people's boats)
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Old 27-03-2015, 21:06   #215
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzman View Post
I have three boats.....only one of which sails at the moment, and that's the kids Sabot..!

My 14ft dinghy awaits a refurb and the 24ft tri awaits a Lotto win....

In the meantime I sail OPB's (other people's boats)
Should come to the UK and buy a boat and sail it back.......
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Old 27-03-2015, 21:09   #216
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

LOL...if I could afford to fly to the UK I wouldn't need a Lotto win to get the tri on the water.....

Seriously, have a plan on the go....will get there....just going to take time...and frugality....
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Old 27-03-2015, 21:11   #217
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzman View Post
LOL...if I could afford to fly to the UK I wouldn't need a Lotto win to get the tri on the water.....

Seriously, have a plan on the go....will get there....just going to take time...and frugality....
Document the journey..
It might inspire others.

3:10am....... clinic is over and time for bed.
Gonna relieve the Siamese of his place in the middle of the bed. I see a fight ahead.
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Old 28-03-2015, 11:25   #218
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Continuing the theme of getting people into boating....... Rick sent me a link on his site to what would appear to be a good deal for someone wanting a good older family Catamaran, and could get to Greece to pick it up.

Catalac 9M Catamaran for Sale - Preveza, Greece

Write and ask the owner anything you need to know about the boat. Catalacs are good sturdy well proven boats and if all is well, this well might be a good and frugal purchase. At least 10K sterling under normal resale price.

I have no affiliation with ANY of the boats or owners that I mention on this thread.
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Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 28-03-2015, 14:10   #219
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

OK weave buddy, you can come clean about your broker aspirations. Medicine not paying enough in that part of the world?
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Old 28-03-2015, 15:08   #220
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
OK weave buddy, you can come clean about your broker aspirations. Medicine not paying enough in that part of the world?
Well...... it isnt. huge drop in salary when I left USA. but: As the thread is about frugality tied to small capital/spare money. I do try to give encouragement to those wanting different types of boats for good money.

The 9 Catalac sells for about 25K sterling here so this is a GOOD frugal buy if the vessel is in reasonable condition.

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Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:03   #221
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

One of the most important considerations in purchasing a boat is: The intended purpose of the vessel.

Once this is established, EVERYTHING in the search for the right boat can be geared towards this aim.

Determine the type of sailing that is going to be done. If day sailing, then perhaps a shower is not necessary or a twin diesel engine configuration. A huge galley will not be required either. Perhaps a lesser emphasis on bed space.

Determine length of vessel required for optimum mooring costs in relation to the intended use.

Determine single handed use or couples use and search accordingly for the right boat.

Determine keel depth for intended cruising grounds.

I found that for my cruising this year, I needed to drop the mast a few times to get under obstacles. I was lucky in as much as my Centaur had been fitted with a quick release on the mast. I did not know it was there when I bought it! It proved to be invaluable.

I personally like separate aft cabin boats. It keeps mental and physical space from the 'boat' centre, an oasis of calm for a short while.

Determine if you need more deck space than cabin space.

Determine if you prefer wheel steering or tiller.

Take a trip on as many boats as you can to experience ride characteristics and sail configurations.

Examine the pricing of the model of boat you are looking at purchasing, and read up on known faults of the model.

Enjoy the learning.
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Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 22-04-2015, 01:46   #222
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Here are two GREAT catamarans at a frugal price in the U.K.

Catamaran Prout Ranger 27ft | eBay

26ft Heavenly Twins Catamaran | eBay
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Old 03-05-2015, 15:28   #223
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I thought I'd chime in with my recent experience buying a frugal sailboat. The boat was a great deal, generally well maintained by a former owner with major structural components such as the keel step, chainplates, etc. recently replaced. A Pearson 28-1, she sails wonderfully. I was shopping with a fistful of cash and named a price below nada average and he accepted. For reference, he had bought the boat for 7500 6 years ago, and put over $10k into her in just parts (so not including his labor, which as a professional machinist and custom machine designer and engineer, would have been pricey). I paid $8k which was the best deal on the FL market at the time, save for an outboard powered ericson 27. The one weak point on the boat was the 35 year old, raw water cooled 5411 Diesel engine.
I had a great time sailing her down the gulf coast of Florida, to the dry Tortugas, and around the keys.
For the last month, however, I've been moored in boot key harbor working every day (save one week away) on getting the engine running after a refusal to start and a bad exhaust manifold-related hydrolock. Costs for this have been about $500 for parts and tools, $500 for the mooring ball, and $600 for a round trip flight to the Bahamas when it became clear I couldn't get the boat there for a prior engagement, to say nothing of the lost time and fun which is far more valuable. So $1600 (and the clock is still running) or, put another way, half the cost of a new 9.9 4 stroke long shaft.
My lesson from this, is that on a boat with an older engine, it's best to find one where the diesel has already blown up, and you can get the price knocked down based on the fact that it has an outboard rather than a diesel. Better to have the outboard which can easily be swapped out for not too much money than to have an old engine with an uncertain future lifespan buried in the hull, where fixing, replacing, or converting will be expensive no matter what.


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Old 03-05-2015, 15:33   #224
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
I thought I'd chime in with my recent experience buying a frugal sailboat. The boat was a great deal, generally well maintained by a former owner with major structural components such as the keel step, chainplates, etc. recently replaced. A Pearson 28-1, she sails wonderfully. I was shopping with a fistful of cash and named a price below nada average and he accepted. For reference, he had bought the boat for 7500 6 years ago, and put over $10k into her in just parts (so not including his labor, which as a professional machinist and custom machine designer and engineer, would have been pricey). I paid $8k which was the best deal on the FL market at the time, save for an outboard powered ericson 27. The one weak point on the boat was the 35 year old, raw water cooled 5411 Diesel engine.
I had a great time sailing her down the gulf coast of Florida, to the dry Tortugas, and around the keys.
For the last month, however, I've been moored in boot key harbor working every day (save one week away) on getting the engine running after a refusal to start and a bad exhaust manifold-related hydrolock. Costs for this have been about $500 for parts and tools, $500 for the mooring ball, and $600 for a round trip flight to the Bahamas when it became clear I couldn't get the boat there for a prior engagement, to say nothing of the lost time and fun which is far more valuable. So $1600 (and the clock is still running) or, put another way, half the cost of a new 9.9 4 stroke long shaft.
My lesson from this, is that on a boat with an older engine, it's best to find one where the diesel has already blown up, and you can get the price knocked down based on the fact that it has an outboard rather than a diesel. Better to have the outboard which can easily be swapped out for not too much money than to have an old engine with an uncertain future lifespan buried in the hull, where fixing, replacing, or converting will be expensive no matter what.


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Its always choices. Whether new or old, things have to be done. You could have been lucky with the engine. In the event I guess you were not. Myself, with older engines, I opt for a used rebuild because that policy has worked for me over the years.

Nothing is cheap. Some ways are cheaper. Thats the way it is.

Glad its a good boat otherwise.

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Old 03-05-2015, 15:50   #225
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I could have been lucky, and the cost isn't as big a deal for me as the time; I could have bought a more expensive boat had I wanted. I'm not frugal so much as cheap, and will gladly spend a dollar to save a penny if I can get some cool tools!
However, I feel for a lot of the frugal sailors who may read this thread, getting lucky may be too big a risk to take. Would a $5,000 diesel engine replacement postpone, shorten, or kill your cruising dreams? If so, then get something with an outboard rather than a Diesel engine, if just from a risk management perspective.


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