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Old 27-03-2015, 00:11   #181
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So I'm going repeat something I said pages ago: Being a cheap sailor with a small low cost boat and being a frugal sailor are not the same thing. Most things people call frugal are really just being cheap.
Some of us still aren't sure if this cruising thing is right for us or maybe cruising isn't number one on our list of hobbies/lifestyles so that's another reason to go for a cheap/low cost boat.

Also I have found that to put the boat in the yard during winter for some repairs is a way to learn more about your boat, get a decent workout in, and learn a new skill. (sanding, painting, etc)

If you would like to spend $115,000 for a boat that another can do the same thing for by spending under $10,000, that is totally up to you.

Many people tend to gain weight over the Winter. They spend lots of money on diets etc to keep their weight down. I saved more money there. Not by being cheap though.

I bought a 6" sander and sanded the entire bottom of my boat then sanded all the paint off the topside hull down to the gelcoat and repainted both. Saved on gym fees there too because I couldn't do the boat and the gym at the same time. I was able to stay at my summer weight this Winter and gain a bit of muscle also.

Attached are before after pictures of the hull. Lots of mistakes but an overall improvement.
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Old 27-03-2015, 00:37   #182
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I got my boat free - well, I had to drive 4200km to collect it, so around AU$1000 return trip.

But it was 6ft longer than the boat I was planning to build, and which I had only just started to accumulate the materials for. So instead of an 18ft Scarab I now have a part built 24ft Wegener tri.

Reckon it will save me a year or more getting onto the water, and then will add 'what's needed' as I go.

But had alredy purchased a second-hand mast off a similar size Farrier tri for the Scarab, and will still use this as the 'start out' rig, even though it will be 'undersized' for the bigger boat. Mast is 8m, whereas the design spec for the 24 is 10m.

But as I got one set of used sails with the mast and complete rig (stays, shrouds etc, plus ALL the hardware off the Farrier 680), and subsequently found another set of jib.main (unused, new old stock) for $250, giving me a good set and a back up set (or fine eweather and not so fine weather sets) all I need is a genoa and/or a spinnie to complete the sil wardrob. Spent $1500 total.

The spar alone I was quoted $2500 for, unrigged.

I have near zero capital, and am funding it from meagre savings as I go along.

I also picked up a full-sized Plastimo binnacle compass (150mm diam) for $100, or less than half price, as the owner was upgrading.

Am aiming to have a 'Dragonfly/Farrier "equivalent" on water for less than AU$10K, which will be similar to a $100K boat 'off the shelf'.

I'm calling my approach 'frugal'.

But some might see it as 'cheap'.......

But if you wanna know about cheap, let me introduce you to my sister, who takes frugal to a whole new level...and from whom I have learned much.

Just sayin'....
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Old 27-03-2015, 04:15   #183
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzman View Post



I have near zero capital, and am funding it from meagre savings as I go along.


I'm calling my approach 'frugal'.

But some might see it as 'cheap'.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Here is a good small Catamaran that can be made just perfect at a slightly lower offer price.

Hirondelle Mk 1 sailing catamaran 23ft yacht | eBay
Frugal, is maximising what you need for the best outcome with consideration for your funds and resources and ability to keep going.

If I wanted a small Cat like the Hirondelle, I would have to pay 6.5K plus on average. The one above, if could be purchased for 3K would be a frugal and wise buy for my circumstances.

It requires fitting out. But in my workshop, I have EVERYTHING to fit it out.

If I had bought a Hirondelle at 6.5K, Id still rip out the chem toilet, fit a holding tank for a shower and toilet, rip out the seating and re do according to my design, change the berths, add storage, change the steering to wheel. Change out the electrics, put in one solar panel, complete service on the outboard that came with it..... etc.

Now this one, from the ground up, I could run electrics, put in a holding tank, put in sea toilet, put in shower and heater, put in deep cycle batteries, fit the solar, change the steering to wheel from tiller arrangement, Do everthing I would do to the one costing 3.5K more, because I have all the parts already. I even have a choice of outboards fully working. I know enough people to swap stuff if required. So that Hirondelle, would probably stand me at 4.8K when finished, and be gleaming and dripping gorgeousness in a deeply satisfying manner.

Some people do not have $115K to start with. Its a lot easier to be frugal when you have a good starting point, NOT because its a more expensive boat, rather because the standard is higher in build and fit.

So the owner of a 6.5K Hirondelle, has only in reality paid 4.5K, has a purpose designed boat and good fittings. As for yearly costs, just put it on the trailer and take it home.

Being frugal, also means examining the location where the boat is to be kept, and HOW the vessel is to be used.

In the Med, where I want to keep a boat, the price break from under 38 foot to 39+foot is substantial. So to be frugal and enjoy the benefit of the same view, the same standard of marina and the benefit of electric, full amenities, wi-fi and services, I would keep under 38 foot. My yearly costs would be 5KEURO. Oh, I can live on it as well. That extra foot would cost me double and more.

Being frugal can apply to any price bracket, however usually those in the higher range choose to not be frugal to start with in their purchase. They EXPECT to pay ongoing costs commensurate to their purchase or else the quality of their vessel diminishes. In some cases, without a manufacture stamp for repairs and servicing, doing it yourself can cost in the resale.

So whilst it may seem to some, that frugality = cheap, I repeat that for many, the art of being frugal starts at where they can afford and the steps that are required to get them to enjoy the water at a price conscious level. Every purchase or decision made to fix or enhance the boat should be made to get the best job possible fit for the purpose at a reasonable price with maximum benefit in longevity and usage.
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Old 27-03-2015, 04:47   #184
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

In my case, I was out relaxing after a run one June afternoon in 2011 and came across this boat. I looked like it hadn't been used in a while so I asked about it.

It had been sitting there 5 years and was for sale for the $2,000. So, I bought it a couple weeks later.

It was my 5th sailboat and maybe 14th boat overall. Yep, most were old but two were new: A Nacra 6.0, and a Nacra F-17. Both small racing beach style catamarans.
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Old 27-03-2015, 05:39   #185
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I wouldn't define someone sailing a small boat as cheap just because they're in a small, old boat; I'd call it frugal. I could easily have bought a bigger boat, but then would have faced harder resale, and wouldn't be able to singlehand her anywhere near as easily. I basically never even use the winches on my 28, and can push her by hand wherever I want her.
These aren't derelicts, they're well-found small yachts, going to the same areas and seeing the same sights as everyone else.


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Old 27-03-2015, 05:49   #186
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pirate re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
I wouldn't define someone sailing a small boat as cheap just because they're in a small, old boat; I'd call it frugal. I could easily have bought a bigger boat, but then would have faced harder resale, and wouldn't be able to singlehand her anywhere near as easily. I basically never even use the winches on my 28, and can push her by hand wherever I want her.
These aren't derelicts, they're well-found small yachts, going to the same areas and seeing the same sights as everyone else.


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I would not call someone who owns an old boat cheap either.. for all one knows its cost every penny he's got..
Two men.. one with $200,000 the other with $20K..
The 1st buys a boat for $100K.. 15K fitting out.. keeps working..
The other lands a $15k boat and uses the other $5K to fit out and go sailing..
Who's cheap..??
to me its the first guy.. number 2 has risked the lot for the dream.. its not what ya got.. its how ya use it..

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Old 27-03-2015, 06:05   #187
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

When it comes right down to it, is anything boating really frugal?
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Old 27-03-2015, 06:17   #188
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pirate re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Usually the diet of the liveaboard... from time to time..
Gotta keep the boat afloat..
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Old 27-03-2015, 06:18   #189
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

I think so! My 7 month cruise will probably end up costing me around $6,000: boat ownership, food, etc. all included. That's not so bad at all


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Old 27-03-2015, 06:23   #190
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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I think so! My 7 month cruise will probably end up costing me around $6,000: boat ownership, food, etc. all included. That's not so bad at all


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Where are you going?
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Old 27-03-2015, 06:34   #191
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pirate re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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I think so! My 7 month cruise will probably end up costing me around $6,000: boat ownership, food, etc. all included. That's not so bad at all


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I'd allow another coupla K for a 'Fun Fund'... it gets pretty old really fast being stuck for a coupla $$'s all the time and going nowhere but a beach..
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Old 27-03-2015, 06:54   #192
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Thanks.

I found out late that doing the job is part of the fun, and it's a great workout.


For the first 15 years, I just sailed and raced.
Well, Thomm, you've been bashing a little on those of us that spend a lot of time working on old boats, I am happy to see you have seen the light.


By the way....boat looks great!!
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Old 27-03-2015, 07:01   #193
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

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Well let me throw it back at you, if not actually cruising why have a boat? I think paying for a "cheap" small boat isn't frugal at all and is just an illusion. Low cost and cheap aren't the same as frugal in my mind.

I feel I'm very frugal, but have a boat I paid $115,000 for as a used boat. Why do I say I'm fugal:

- in 7 years I have NEVER paid for a slip anywhere
- I keep my boat on a mooring
- in 7 years I've paid maybe a total of $500 labor for work on my boat because I do everything (most of that money and all of the the last 6 years have been for sail work)
- my boat model is currently selling for more than I paid for mine over 4 years ago, I was a good shopper
- I sail more often and more miles than anyone in my marina, so I'm actually getting use of my boat

Yet I still spend $10-12,000 per year in the cost of owning, operating, maintaining, and upgrading my boat (and if I had say a 30' boat if would only save maybe $1000/yr instead of having my more comfortable
boat that we use more because it is comfortable) . Because a frugal sailor doesn't let their boat fall apart!

So I'm going repeat something I said pages ago: Being a cheap sailor with a small low cost boat and being a frugal sailor are not the same thing. Most things people call frugal are really just being cheap.
There's another school of thought on that sailorboy. Not all sailors are "cruisers" in the sense that we think of it, yet that does not invalidate their reasons for boat ownership. And a lot of people would argue that for "non crusier types" small boat often get used more because they are easier to get underway, easier to handle, can be sailed single or short handed and for a lot of people if it weren't for small boats they wouldn't be able to own a boat at all. Slip fees are less, as is maintenance and operating costs. And not everyone is looking for a condo on the water. Some people just want to get out with the kids for a few hours on the weekends, or maybe join in on the Wednesday evening beer can races. Just because that's not your preferred usage of a boat doesn't make it wrong.

This thread was started, as I understand it, for people who think that owning a boat and sailing is out of their reach specifically because they don't have the resources to buy a $115K used boat or afford $10K annually in maintenance and upgrades. Using you as an example of a "typical boat owner" would only serve to further reinforce the idea that you have to be what most people would consider wealthy to break into sailing or boating.
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Old 27-03-2015, 07:16   #194
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re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Definitely have the cash for, as we'll call them, incidentals
Bought her in Tampa for 8, sailed her down to the keys and across to the dry Tortugas, then beat back to key west last night. There was a week and a half of provisioning and installation in there as well.
Never knew what $700 in canned goods looked like before. Now doing a night or two in KW before heading to Boot Key for final provisioning, then across to the Bahamas for two months, then north to maine and south to Maryland.
$6,000 may turn out to be conservative. I expect to lose about $1,000 on the boat, and in fact already have a buyer for her, and happy to spend the rest and much more to live and live well


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Old 27-03-2015, 07:26   #195
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pirate re: The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

Good man... Have a ball..
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