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Old 06-09-2013, 20:06   #46
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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Originally Posted by CaptFrankM View Post
Raku, you make a good point about Monica's husband trying to explain "his" way, which is why I suggested that she find an instructor who could work with both of them. A good instructor would work with her husband to try to get him to understand why that action would be counterproductive. Of course, it would require an instructor who is used to working with the dynamics of couples, which apparently is rare outside of the Chesapeake bay area. I've worked with five different school organizations here on the Bay and none of the ones I worked with broke up couples, but different methods in different areas, I guess.

However, Monica's response indicates to me that it would be useless for her to do anything except to try to learn from her husband. Anything she learned might be different from her husband's techniques and she would end up questioning and second-guessing herself. Hopefully, as she gets more confidence, the friction will lessen.

For me, as a female, it's a slam dunk. She goes and learns something about sailing, gets some confidence, then she goes back to her husband and they discuss what she learned Heaving to, for instance, is individual for each boat. If she isn't taught that in her class, she'll find out when she gets home. She's not going to come back thinking she knows as much as her husband who has sailed for 40 years, but she'll understand the basic principles. She'll be able to hold course for him while he does something else. The chart will make sense to her.

They'll work it out. They don't need a referee, they need common reference points. They'll have that after she's taken a class or two.

I can't imagine that she will insist that she knows more than her husband about sail trim, or anchoring, or anything else -- but she'll be much better equipped to help him sail the boat. They'll share the common language of sailing. Maybe at class they said "ready about," and maybe her husband says "We're going to tack, but either way if he's at the helm she knows how to alter the sheets (and knows they're called sheets).

This just isn't a problem. It's a non-issue.
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:10   #47
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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I've sailed without a clue and with a clue, and with a clue is more fun ...
THAT was perfectly said!
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:21   #48
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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I never said it was HIS fault. Sheesh, I agree with YOU.

One other thing: Docking.

The very FIRST thing I teach anyone who sails with me is how to dock the boat. If anything ever happened to me, I'd sure want to know I could get home, if not to our own berth, at least somewhere safe.

It's not the first thing I teach newbies on my boat. The first thing I teach them is how to call EC-SAR, Boat US or the Coast Guard if something happens to me. I was struck by the experience of a member of my club. He was out sailing on his boat with another member when he suffered a heart attack. The other member frantically moved the boat for 1 1/2 hours back to the club and then called 911.

90 minutes of treatment time were wasted. It didn't dawn on either of them that it was a bad thing.

Six weeks later, he's recovered, and I've just finished sail school. He invites me out on his boat, and after about 20 minutes looks at me concerned, and says, "If something happened to me, could you sail the boat back to the club?"

I told him no (his 30' Catalina was vastly different from the 16.5's we learned on) ... but that I could use my phone and his radio to call for help.

IT HAD NEVER OCCURRED TO EITHER HIM OR HIS COMPANION THE DAY HE HAD HIS HEART ATTACK that help was literally just a phone call away. Call EC-SAR, and young people trained in advanced first aid will be there before anyone else can do it. They save lives routinely around here.

Docking is tricky. I don't want anyone docking my boat except me. If another boat gets hit I want it to be my fault. I certainly wouldn't teach it until that person had a good feel for the boat and had operated it in open water under engine power at a variety of speed and wind conditions.

I let newbies have some fun first. I get the sails out, then I let them try various points of sail until the boat suddenly takes off under their feet like a galloping horse. Let the have some real fun and they'll be eager to sail. Start them off with something as complex as docking and many will be quite discouraged.
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:53   #49
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

Stu, what I reacted to was that you claimed that in some post I implied that the rudder accident was my friend's fault.

That's the problem with reading between the lines. It is absolutely true that he did not recognize the risk he was taking, but it is ALSO true that I realized that the risk was real too late. And the responsibility was on me as skipper.

It was a very expensive tuition lesson, but the real lesson was "Don't just 'feel' that 'still, small voice' inside you' -- call it topside and take a good hard look at it.

My instincts were saying to bring the headsail in, and I didn't listen to it soon enough.

Now, as we talk about it, as Rebel pointed out -- that's a lot of rudder problems all on the same or similar boats. I would be interested in hearing if anyone else knows of Hunter rudder problems, but I already know it's the boat's Achilles heel.
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:57   #50
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

Sorry to hear about the priorities that weren't pretty apparent that day and the waste of time. Our cell phone is so old that it's a rotary dial (!), but one would expect people with basic sense would call 911 FIRST.

Docking is a separate issue from the situation you described. I simply can't imagine in this day and age with folks walking around with cell phones tied to their eyes and ears that they wouldn't call 911 First when something like that occurred.

Of course, the "Mayday" VHF radio instructions are also prominently posted on our boat, and communications are among the first things we discuss.

You may have missed my point entirely. Captain Bligh is not always associated with only men. I understand you have your ways, and others may have differing views.

I wish you well with your methods.

But comms and docking seem pretty high priorities for my boat and my guests.

Your boat, your choice.

PS - I'll bet Monica learns how to dock HER and her husband's boat. Sure hope hubby lets her do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It's not the first thing I teach newbies on my boat. The first thing I teach them is how to call EC-SAR, Boat US or the Coast Guard if something happens to me. I was struck by the experience of a member of my club. He was out sailing on his boat with another member when he suffered a heart attack. The other member frantically moved the boat for 1 1/2 hours back to the club and then called 911.

90 minutes of treatment time were wasted. It didn't dawn on either of them that it was a bad thing.

Six weeks later, he's recovered, and I've just finished sail school. He invites me out on his boat, and after about 20 minutes looks at me concerned, and says, "If something happened to me, could you sail the boat back to the club?"

I told him no (his 30' Catalina was vastly different from the 16.5's we learned on) ... but that I could use my phone and his radio to call for help.

IT HAD NEVER OCCURRED TO EITHER HIM OR HIS COMPANION THE DAY HE HAD HIS HEART ATTACK that help was literally just a phone call away. Call EC-SAR, and young people trained in advanced first aid will be there before anyone else can do it. They save lives routinely around here.

Docking is tricky. I don't want anyone docking my boat except me. If another boat gets hit I want it to be my fault. I certainly wouldn't teach it until that person had a good feel for the boat and had operated it in open water under engine power at a variety of speed and wind conditions.

I let newbies have some fun first. I get the sails out, then I let them try various points of sail until the boat suddenly takes off under their feet like a galloping horse. Let the have some real fun and they'll be eager to sail. Start them off with something as complex as docking and many will be quite discouraged.
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Old 06-09-2013, 21:26   #51
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

Here's another side of this thread, " my old daddy told me that training a lady is a lot like training a dog! The rule is, First ya must be smarter then the dog!!" Yep ya better know a little more then they do and know how to explain it! If they had places to sent ladys to to learn, when Connie and I started out. sure would have sent her !!
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Old 06-09-2013, 21:38   #52
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

That's what I like to see.

Men who think they're smarter than their wives.
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Old 06-09-2013, 22:41   #53
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I have an old Glenans sailing instruction manual that was my primer in the late 70's. It pointed out the importance of if reading the manual after sailing.. And sailing alone in a dink. Get blown into a lee shore, gybe and turn turtle, get caught in irons and tangled in lines until you get a feel for the wind and the waves.

You may come come to love sailing into port, making a sweet turn and gently nosing up to the pier. Go to the books after a days sailing on your own. You might.find you prefer to be crew. I prefer it on some vessels.

Good Will Hunting quote:
See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna start doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a xxxx education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:44   #54
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

Monica,


There is a series of vvideos available from The Sailing Channel, about the basics of sailing, Capt. Jack Klange. I think it costs about 15 bucks to download. I can heartily recommend it. He goes through the basics og docking a boat from every direction and wind angle
both in theory (using small models) and showing it on the water. Once you have studied this, you will understand the dynamics of docking.

Then you needd to get on your boat (wwith your husband) on a nice calm day and spend the afternoon practicing docking in various situations. Reach an agreement beforehand with your husband that YOU are at the helm and he is crew. Treat yourselves to nice dinner and wine afterwards asa reward for practicing.

Klange also has (in the same download) some excellent material on setting sails etc.

These videos won't make you an expert, but they will bring you a long ways towards understanding sailing.

By the way, despite the fact that I'm a Yachtmaster 1st class and my wife a Yachtmaster 2nd class (she's taking her 1 class this year), we go out at least once a season and just practice docking (especially when it starts blowwing over 25 knots.) all so we keep our edge.


Since your husband is far more experienced than you, you will be behind him on the learning curve for many years (my wife learned to sail 10 years ago - I started 50 years ago), your goal is not to become as good as he is - your goal is to become competent in your own right. My wife and I do some things differently - but she sails the boat every bit as well as I do, and I have complete cconfidence in her abilities

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Frank- believe it or not I had thought of that and you are right in a lot of aspects. However- I can just say with absolute certainty that my husband with near 40 years of sailing experience will in no way shape or form take a course with me with someone who hasn't done 1/2 of what he has. I know he does just have his ways of doing some things and he freely tells everyone they might not be the right ways, just what he has done and what works for him. The man knows his boats inside and out-you would be amazed at the work he has done on ours in a couple months, but that's another thread. I would just like some basic how to's - docking especially. Actually, I want to try things without the pressure of making sure I do everything to a T the first time. For example- we were out for a lesson and decided to practice coming about- great! We had plenty of deeper water, no one around. Each time he wanted it done just a bit different and I was trying to do as he had told me last time. He gets a bit frustrated thinking I could read things- I just have no idea- I'm just trying to follow instructions and learn. Needless to say- by the end of it we both wanted to sell the boat! Not his fault- not mine- i just want to gain on his learning curve a little bit without the subject of divorce coming up--lol ( you all know what i'm talking about). Right now it's just a bit intimidating. Guess I'll just suck it up and say screw it and let the hubby be the guide. It's cheaper! I just have to let the Captain be the Captain. He really does just have volumes to teach...

Monica.
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Old 07-09-2013, 15:47   #55
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Thank you everyone- all good points, I agree with all of you on points! In no way would I even begin to think I can touch a pinky's worth of his knowledge through a course- but as Raku says- I would really like some reference points and a confidence boost for me - AND- for him! I thoroughly appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions- ill tell you how this went as we're sitting in our boat discussing this- it starts- I think I would like to take a few lessons on sailing so I would understand a bit more of what's going on without stressing you and I- (he maybe rolls his eyes a bit- but just a bit) uh huh- and a few people on this forum also say it I was a great way for their spouses to start to learn without causing a ton of friction. I am now getting the 'are you serious look over the top of the glasses and - "and how much might this cost?" now- here might be where I lost him- I explained maybe I could use our boat and blab blah blah- needless to say no other capt is taking our boat without him on it. I did kinda expect that, but it was worth a shot....

I will most likely take a couple courses. To be honest- we brought the boat home from Miami through Key West and up to St. Petersburg, Fl by ourselves. I try to learn the whole time- there are so many subtleties I want to start to wrapping my head around around is the problem. By the time we got home and took his family out I was hoisting sails, reefing, adjusting course and doing a lot more than just being the chief cook and bottle washer. I just want to understand more of it. I think that no matter what I should be able to single hand the boat because I agree, as earlier said- I want to be able to manage the boat in an emergency PLUS- I want to let him enjoy himself, too!

Thank you everyone- I appreciate all the replies!

Monica
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Old 07-09-2013, 17:30   #56
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Ann-- we both think that is a Great idea to go and tell them what he wants me to learn- that is PERFECT! That is just what I'm talking about. We both liked that! And I liked the idea of the videos- but I just learn better from the here--- this is this- so now we're going to do this AND DO IT approach. Once I do it it's ingrained and can adjust for situations henceforth.

Thank you,

Monica and Dave
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Old 08-09-2013, 18:03   #57
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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They'll work it out. They don't need a referee, they need common reference points. They'll have that after she's taken a class or two.
.


I've found this to be true through out my marriage. Times when we discuss things where one of us is starting from a very low knowledge point are pretty challenging compared to when we have built up our own ideas first.

Seems counter intuitive sometimes... She (or I) having learned a different method would seem to be a way to start problems... but the basic confidence of knowing you know something about the subject seems to pave the way for better communication and teamwork.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:10   #58
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Carstenb--

We downloaded the videos you mentioned- they are great! Even my husband watched and learned a few things! He just lays it out so easily with great explanations- just what I was looking for! Got them on the IPad - taking it with us. Dave finished installing our generator yesterday so the boat is finally ready and we are heading out for fuel- and lessons, lol.

Wish me luck.

Monica
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:19   #59
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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Sorry to hear about the priorities that weren't pretty apparent that day and the waste of time. Our cell phone is so old that it's a rotary dial (!), but one would expect people with basic sense would call 911 FIRST.

Docking is a separate issue from the situation you described. I simply can't imagine in this day and age with folks walking around with cell phones tied to their eyes and ears that they wouldn't call 911 First when something like that occurred.

Of course, the "Mayday" VHF radio instructions are also prominently posted on our boat, and communications are among the first things we discuss.

You may have missed my point entirely. Captain Bligh is not always associated with only men. I understand you have your ways, and others may have differing views.

I wish you well with your methods.

But comms and docking seem pretty high priorities for my boat and my guests.

Your boat, your choice.

PS - I'll bet Monica learns how to dock HER and her husband's boat. Sure hope hubby lets her do it.


I'm no Captain Bligh. That's one reason I don't start with docking. When a person unfamiliar with sailboats has to dock, they hear order after order after order followed by critique and critique and critique -- all in a very serious situation.

Take them out and let them get the feel and the joy of sailing first, and all the work that will follow is worth it.

If I did teach someone to dock it would be on their boat, not mine, and it would include homework.

To each his own, but a I think a first time sailor is going to have more fun on my boat.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:20   #60
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Re: Teaching Wife To Sail

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Here's another side of this thread, " my old daddy told me that training a lady is a lot like training a dog! The rule is, First ya must be smarter then the dog!!" Yep ya better know a little more then they do and know how to explain it! If they had places to sent ladys to to learn, when Connie and I started out. sure would have sent her !!


I think this dog might have bit your daddy!
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