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Old 30-09-2010, 20:54   #61
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The contract is with the Bahamian Government and the rules change everytime I show up. This particular time I was told to make a payment in US cash and no receipt would be given. . .
Just curious for future reference - If the contract is with the Bahamian Gvt or actually anybody within the Bahamas - wouldn't you have a clause in the contract specifying "work permit costs?" Or a clause requiring reimbusement for any such "extra fees/licenses" necessary in the performance of the contract.

Not to outdo the Bahamas, but in the aftermath of Hurricane Ivan in Grenada, I and a few others were running sanctioned relief shuttles of water, food and necessities from Trinidad to Grenada and back. We made several trips and each time the Trinidad government required us to pay check-in/out fees. The money came out of the charity relief fund that was buying food and water. I thought that was pretty low and petty of the Trinidad officials.
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Old 30-09-2010, 21:31   #62
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If spoons worked like guns and I could make you instantly gain 200 lbs by just pointing it at you...you'd be scared of that spoon too.

Personally, I really enjoy guns. What I do mind about them is that they make the job of killing me very simple and straightforward. In fact, an irresponsible gun owner might even be able to kill me without even trying to!
In fact, an irresponsible boat owner, car driver, or food service worker might be able to kill you without even trying to!
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:47   #63
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In fact, an irresponsible boat owner, car driver, or food service worker might be able to kill you without even trying to!
You make an excellent point (though I've never heard of a case of accidental poisoning that resulted in death from a 'food service'*). Keep in mind that I really do enjoy guns. It is that guns make killing people, intended or not, extremely easy. It is literally point, click, done. They are designed to end lives (maybe not always human ones). This makes them very scary and a neat deterrent, which is why if I ever bring a gun on-board there will be no ammo.

Personally, I'd much rather let the guy have my dingy motor than kill him. Truth of the matter is, I can't think of a single thing I own I'd want to kill someone over. In my mind, a loaded gun is the wrong tool to protect your boat. I'd only carry one if I felt I'd need to protect my LIFE, and I'd say if you feel you're in any danger of being murdered...you should probably not be there in the first place.

*In the US.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:00   #64
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Originally Posted by Event_Horizon
If spoons worked like guns and I could make you instantly gain 200 lbs by just pointing it at you...you'd be scared of that spoon too.
I hate to break it to you, but guns don't work that way. I know because I have had a gun pointed at me before, and it didn't kill me or even hurt me. Guns do work EXACTLY like spoons. Someone has to pick it up, point it, use it, for it to do any damage. In fact, considering how statistically rare gun accidents are, and considering that in the majority of such "accidents" someone actually did pick up the gun, put their finger on the trigger, and squeeze, I would guess that accidental injuries from spoons are almost as common as gun accidents that DON'T involve someone pulling the trigger.

(And, by the way, I wasn't afraid of the gun at the time. I was afraid that the drugged-up loser holding it might pull the trigger. Luckily for me he didn't.)
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:33   #65
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... Guns do work EXACTLY like spoons. Someone has to pick it up, point it, use it, for it to do any damage ...
Indeed!

FWIW: I suspect that it's usually much safer (for the pointer), to point an unloaded spoon at somebody, than it is to point an unloaded gun.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:34   #66
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:36   #67
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I hate to break it to you, but guns don't work that way. I know because I have had a gun pointed at me before, and it didn't kill me or even hurt me. Guns do work EXACTLY like spoons. Someone has to pick it up, point it, use it, for it to do any damage. In fact, considering how statistically rare gun accidents are, and considering that in the majority of such "accidents" someone actually did pick up the gun, put their finger on the trigger, and squeeze, I would guess that accidental injuries from spoons are almost as common as gun accidents that DON'T involve someone pulling the trigger.

(And, by the way, I wasn't afraid of the gun at the time. I was afraid that the drugged-up loser holding it might pull the trigger. Luckily for me he didn't.)
I think you completely missed the point of my argument, sorry if it wasn't very clear. I was commenting on the ease and speed of which a gun is capable of doing it's thing, not that guns were autonomous sentient destructive forces.

If I were to spoon feed you until you gained an additional 200 lbs. Sure, I'd have to pick it up and 'pull the trigger' but it'd be a process. A slow controlled process spanning weeks and taking a lot of effort and dedication on my part.

My point was that where there is a gun involved, a person can go from alive to dead (or about to die) nearly instantaneously, and without much effort. As you said, even a drugged-up loser can casually end your life nearly effortlessly (with a gun). True, it was a person wielding a tool, just like a person wields a spoon, but there is a distinct difference. Guns take no time, effort, or dedication to operate and cause drastic consequences. So no, in that regard they do not work EXACTLY like spoons...unless you happen to own a spoon that I could point at you and you'd instantly be fed for the rest of your life...then I'd agree.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:03   #68
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Originally Posted by Event_Horizon
I think you completely missed the point of my argument, sorry if it wasn't very clear. I was commenting on the ease and speed of which a gun is capable of doing it's thing, not that guns were autonomous sentient destructive forces.
Perhaps I did misunderstand. Of course, there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that guns are, in fact, autonomous sentient destructive forces. Not consciously, of course. Ask them if a gun can kill someone all by itself and they will admit that it can't. Still, they will continue to think about guns, and talk about guns, as if they really do act autonomously. So I hope you can understand my reaction to your statements.

I also have to add that your comment about, if you ever carry a gun you will be sure not to have any ammunition, puts me in mind of a quote from John Wayne, in the movie True Grit... "a gun that ain't loaded and cocked ain't good for nothin'!"
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:41   #69
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Truth of the matter is, I can't think of a single thing I own I'd want to kill someone over.
Possibly someone trying to sink my boat could do it...I'm not a gun owner or lover, but I can think of something that could make me take a life: Someone raping or hurting a loved one, if I caught them in the act and it was the only way to stop them...
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Old 01-10-2010, 13:13   #70
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Possibly someone trying to sink my boat could do it...I'm not a gun owner or lover, but I can think of something that could make me take a life: Someone raping or hurting a loved one, if I caught them in the act and it was the only way to stop them...
I can agree with this. Hurting people and my loved ones is one thing. I donno, I just can't help but think: What if people were executed in the US for theft? It is the exactly same moral question...is that 'thing' worth a human life. I guess I've just decided ahead of time that's not the kind of world I want to contribute to.

haha thread drift...typical cruising discussion.
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Old 01-10-2010, 17:37   #71
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I can agree with this. Hurting people and my loved ones is one thing. I donno, I just can't help but think: What if people were executed in the US for theft? It is the exactly same moral question...is that 'thing' worth a human life. I guess I've just decided ahead of time that's not the kind of world I want to contribute to.

haha thread drift...typical cruising discussion.
Sometimes yes, that thing is worth the life of the person trying to take it. I work hard for what I have. And I would be damned if I would just let someone take it unscathed.

It is just as easy to kill someone with a hammer as it is a gun. One swing and done. A gun you have to load cock aim and shoot, a hammer just swing once at head.
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Old 01-10-2010, 18:10   #72
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I just cannot understand this obsession with guns.... I was raised in Pakistan which as you know is a bit wild west these days... it was not much different in the 50's n 60's as a kid....
I've done S.Africa, the Caribbean and assorted other countries and gone places you'd not even consider without a gun and walked out with no hassle...
I remember in 2000 there was a US preacher in St Martin who came on the VHF every morning... and after all the religious BS would then come out with crap like Phillipsburg is a no go zone after 10pm... French side is full of crackheads and muggers and other BS...
I've come to believe.. especially after having lived in NC for a year... that the country and its people are controlled by the fear factor instigated by the 'Men at the Top'.... forget the gun.. stop saying your bigger n better... you'll do just fine..
Oh.. and talk Australian...lmao
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Old 01-10-2010, 18:14   #73
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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Perhaps I did misunderstand. Of course, there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that guns are, in fact, autonomous sentient destructive forces. Not consciously, of course. Ask them if a gun can kill someone all by itself and they will admit that it can't. Still, they will continue to think about guns, and talk about guns, as if they really do act autonomously. So I hope you can understand my reaction to your statements.

I also have to add that your comment about, if you ever carry a gun you will be sure not to have any ammunition, puts me in mind of a quote from John Wayne, in the movie True Grit... "a gun that ain't loaded and cocked ain't good for nothin'!"
Puts me in mind of a saying by a German friend I made in the 90's... he was in his late 70's and ex Hitler Youth... "A man is not a man without a knife"....
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Old 01-10-2010, 20:17   #74
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You make an excellent point (though I've never heard of a case of accidental poisoning that resulted in death from a 'food service'*).
*In the US.
1993, Jack In the Box, Ecoli 0157-H7, 700 sickenedand 4 children died. Improper cooking of ground meat.

According to this website (The Rise of Food Poisoning in America | Down to Earth) 14 people die in the US daily from food poisoning. I have the feeling that this site may be overstating the case to make their point, vegetarian site, but I believe that their error would be less than an order of magnitude.

I have never owned a gun but enjoy shooting and reloading with friends that do.
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Old 01-10-2010, 20:22   #75
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In fact, considering how statistically rare gun accidents are, and considering that in the majority of such "accidents" someone actually did pick up the gun, put their finger on the trigger, and squeeze, I would guess that accidental injuries from spoons are almost as common as gun accidents that DON'T involve someone pulling the trigger.
I would bet that spoon accidents far outnumber gun accidents, there are a lot more people with spoons than guns, and they get used a lot more.

On the other hand the number of fatal gun accident probably far outnumber fatal spoon accidents.
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