Taking a Shotgun to Bahamas from US and Back

[sck5]

Ribbit is a prime example of someone who cant wrap their mind around the fact that US rules and laws dont apply in other countries. You can argue all you want but here is the fact - If somebody robs you or assaults you in the Bahamas or Caribbean and you then shoot them dead, YOU will be the one in jail. For a very long time. You can throw up all the clouds of words you want but it wont change that fact.

As for me, I have spent a year in the Eastern Caribbean and am in the Bahamas this year. I have never been in a place with less crime or where I felt as safe. Maybe that is because I avoid Nassau and Freeport like the plague but the fact is that nobody has guns, there are no cops to be seen and there is no crime. So all you macho gunslingers please just stay away. Or leave your guns at home which is what I do.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Great point!

I think there are gun nuts, who, while trained, are just nuts. I think there are anti-gun nuts, who, while ignorant, are also just nuts. Neither one worries me much.

But there are people with guns out there who have a) never been trained b) are idiots or c) both of the above. And they always nudge me towards the licensing/banning guns side.


Training should be mandatory if we are going to allow/encourage guns in our societies. I should not have to deal with frickin' idiots popping out of the tree line by my vegetable garden waving a rifle capable of sending a bullet a couple of miles. And I shudder to think what the same idiot would be like with a handgun. It's like giving a Ferrari to a beginner...you are just asking for trouble

DAMN RIGHT! they should have a licence to operate one of those things....Oh wait!

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Therapy

DAMN RIGHT! they should have a licence to operate one of those things....Oh wait!

:-)

But you know what I mean right? I just shudder every time I read something like this: Washington state man fatally shoots himself while taking selfies - British Columbia - CBC News

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

The world is bigger than just the U.S.! Really? That sounds very condescending, do you seriously think that there's anyone that doesn't realize that the laws are different wherever we may roam?

So going to jail for murder is worse than being raped and killed? You'd still be alive at least. Oh, and no gun is needed to rape and kill someone......if they're breaking in knowing full well that you're there, them having a gun or not is moot IMHO.

Again, you speak down to someone you disagree with. You try to sound neutral, yet you call someone ignorant (just a little though). Do you seriously think he doesn't know that the gun laws through out the world are different? Really? So you know he knows, right? Why the condescending attitude?

The odds of needing an Epirb are minimal too.

It's o.k. to totally disagree with anyone and everyone. Being condescending about it isn't. That's just me though, I could be wrong.

Its my understanding one can be raped and killed in Jail as well.. Talk about 'No Win'..

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

:-)

But you know what I mean right? I just shudder every time I read something like this: Washington state man fatally shoots himself while taking selfies - British Columbia - CBC News

Yes I know what you meant.
I shudder at blatant stupidity myself.
From the article - there was no indication drugs or alcohol may have played a role, said Clark. The man's name has not been released.

'Lessons to be learned? Treat all guns as if they are loaded. Never point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. These are all firearms safety rules and it appears at this point that those were violated," said Clark.

Absolutely the 101 class before anyone ever lets you touch the thing. I guarantee he knew that. I bet he knew it well.

"When you are dead, you don't even know you are dead.
It's only pain for others.
Same thing when you are stupid !

But I would probably not bother to carry outside the US - EVEN THOUGH - I know a couple who were with another two couples on a boat almost to the Bahamas when a faster boat came upon them. They did not like the looks of them, sent the women below and had only one man visible on deck. When the other boat pulled a weapon and brought it to bear there was a god-awful racket of a firefight..........for a short time. My friends all survived. They were the only ones. There were several on the other boat and they were also well armed. No more details would they give. Two of the three women will not get in a boat. The men don't boat much at all anymore.

Sooooo.
Everybody has the same two rights in life.
The right to die and the right to live till you die.

All the rest is grey.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Yes I know what you meant.
I shudder at blatant stupidity myself.
From the article - there was no indication drugs or alcohol may have played a role, said Clark. The man's name has not been released.

'Lessons to be learned? Treat all guns as if they are loaded. Never point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. These are all firearms safety rules and it appears at this point that those were violated," said Clark.

Absolutely the 101 class before anyone ever lets you touch the thing. I guarantee he knew that. I bet he knew it well.

"When you are dead, you don't even know you are dead.
It's only pain for others.
Same thing when you are stupid !

But I would probably not bother to carry outside the US - EVEN THOUGH - I know a couple who were with another two couples on a boat almost to the Bahamas when a faster boat came upon them. They did not like the looks of them, sent the women below and had only one man visible on deck. When the other boat pulled a weapon and brought it to bear there was a god-awful racket of a firefight..........for a short time. My friends all survived. They were the only ones. There were several on the other boat and they were also well armed. No more details would they give. Two of the three women will not get in a boat. The men don't boat much at all anymore.

Sooooo.
Everybody has the same two rights in life.
The right to die and the right to live till you die.

All the rest is grey.

Damn right.. no way would I dream of taking my AK47's out of Pakistan..

[BigNickMontana]

I spent a few years working as a repo man in south Texas, I learned people are not scared of guns for the most part one little bit.

A big knife though, they are scared of a big knife, even more scared of a big dog.

I find having a German Shepherd with me is about the best security money can buy. They are great companions too.

If I was going to carry a gun on the boat, id want something more along the lines of a .270 or .30-06 than a scatter gun, cause if I am gonna have to shoot at anybody, it will be before they board my boat, not after, and if I am going to have to shoot at anyone, I want to be doing it a long ways off, like outside of the maximum effective range of a Kalashnikov.

Of course if I had the disposable income a M82A1 .50 BMG would be nice because it could actually sink a pursuing boat.

But when considering all of that, while being a veteran and being fully trained and capable of handling small arms, I think the best defense is to stay my ass out of places where id have to get into a sea fairing fire fight and if I absolutely had to go to such places IE anywhere off the coast of Somalia or Yemen, id want to stick with a large group of Yachts verses going it alone because there really is strength in numbers.

I've been in a lot of fights in my life, i've even fired a few shots in anger. I've come to believe the best fight is the one you avoid all together.

Don't get me wrong, I fully believe an armed society is a polite society, I just also believe you should do all you can to avoid getting in a fight, and the more creativity you employ in not inviting trouble the less likelihood you will find any.

And if a battle cannot be avoided, then Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by BigNickMontana

I spent a few years working as a repo man in south Texas, I learned people are not scared of guns for the most part one little bit.

A big knife though, they are scared of a big knife, even more scared of a big dog.

I find having a German Shepherd with me is about the best security money can buy. They are great companions too.

If I was going to carry a gun on the boat, id want something more along the lines of a .270 or .30-06 than a scatter gun, cause if I am gonna have to shoot at anybody, it will be before they board my boat, not after, and if I am going to have to shoot at anyone, I want to be doing it a long ways off, like outside of the maximum effective range of a Kalashnikov.

Of course if I had the disposable income a M82A1 .50 BMG would be nice because it could actually sink a pursuing boat.

But when considering all of that, while being a veteran and being fully trained and capable of handling small arms, I think the best defense is to stay my ass out of places where id have to get into a sea fairing fire fight and if I absolutely had to go to such places IE anywhere off the coast of Somalia or Yemen, id want to stick with a large group of Yachts verses going it alone because there really is strength in numbers.

I've been in a lot of fights in my life, i've even fired a few shots in anger. I've come to believe the best fight is the one you avoid all together.

Don't get me wrong, I fully believe an armed society is a polite society, I just also believe you should do all you can to avoid getting in a fight, and the more creativity you employ in not inviting trouble the less likelihood you will find any.

And if a battle cannot be avoided, then Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

Having spent time working in NC and listening to conversations like.. "****.. I'd just blow the Mutha F**Ka Away" I don't tend to agree with the 'Polite Society'
Another time driving up to Vermont a big pickup cut me up some I gave him the finger and wanker sign.. the gal with me freaked.. she was certain there'd be an 'Easy Rider' incident..
I completely agree with the Knife statement however.. most folk 'Pucker' if there's a chance it'll get 'Up Close and Dirty'..

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Having spent time working in NC and listening to conversations like.. "****.. I'd just blow the Mutha F**Ka Away" I don't tend to agree with the 'Polite Society'
Another time driving up to Vermont a big pickup cut me up some I gave him the finger and wanker sign.. the gal with me freaked.. she was certain there'd be an 'Easy Rider' incident..
I completely agree with the Knife statement however.. most folk 'Pucker' if there's a chance it'll get 'Up Close and Dirty'..

While I agree that stupid people and firearms are mutually exclusive, what never ceased to amaze me when I was working in the repo business in south Texas is how many felons I encountered who had guns, and how many people who were illegally in the country who had them.

Thus I have come to believe that all arrogant attempts by government to keep the wrong people from owning guns has done is to make legal gun ownership difficult for good people.

Then again I think much of our problems could be solved if they started making gun safety mandatory in school every year, it would help break the Hollywood myth that a gun makes you powerful because more people would look at them as a tool, not a magic device that gives you power.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its my understanding one can be raped and killed in Jail as well.. Talk about 'No Win'..

Good point!

[Therapy]

For those who continue to vilify the US because we have so many gun nuts, please take 6.5 minutes out of your day.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/pELwCq...&autoplay=true

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

<snip of a bunch of very logical points, for brevity>
Since I was shot by a nutter in 1989 (in a pure fluke, it turned out that the plastic lenses in my glasses were to the same ballistic standard as shooting glasses, so saved me from being blinded or dead - but boy did I have a black eye - by the time the second shot was fired, I was behind cover, I didn't know I could move so fast), I have looked into this subject quite deeply, and while it is bad enough for a man to be put into such an appalling position of helplessness, for women it can be far worse. I don't want anybody to experience just how bad that is.

As such, I think every woman should be encouraged to have a pistol for her protection, in her purse, and from what I have seen, women can quickly become excellent and safe shots.

Wait, how could you be shot in the UK? Guns are illegal there! LOL it is too bad that passing anti-gun laws only stops the law-abiding from having guns. For some unfathomable reason, the criminals refuse to obey the law! Go figure.

A firearm is not the right choice for everyone, everywhere, every time. The last thing I want to do is convince someone who is afraid of guns, to purchase and keep one. But I agree with many points that have been made here in this thread. An "area to avoid" often springs into being in a matter of hours. A safe area can become one to avoid while you are in transit or while you are there.

Deadly force attack warrants a deadly force defense. Just because an attacker or group of them has no gun does not mean they are incapable of killing. If they threaten to do so, and the threat is a credible one (for instance, outnumbering the victim, and younger/stronger or more accustomed to violence) then a very good argument can be made that a totally reasonable fear for ones life existed and responding with a firearm was logical. No court system should simply require you to die when attacked by criminals.

I would MUCH rather go to jail for defending myself than do die for not doing so. Okay, yeah, some jails are very grim and gruesome places. Well, as long as you are alive, there is always some slim chance that you will get out. When you are in your grave, you are not getting out. Period. While you live, there can be hope.

I have pretty much decided that the most unsafe places for me to go are those places where I am required to render myself totally helpless and vulnerable in order to comply with the law. To me, those are the most unsafe places of all. There is no place in the world where crime has been eradicated. There is no place in the world where criminals do not go about armed or in gangs. Nobody has figured out how to convince the criminals to give up their weapons or their violent ways. BY DEFINITION, criminals commit crimes, including violation of weapons laws. It is their nature. They couldnt care less if it is illegal to possess a gun or not. So when you pass a law forbidding or restricting gun ownership, you take guns from the people not inclined to use them in criminal pursuit, but do not take them from those that are. How can anyone not see the absurdity of that?

All argument, all logic aside, if you see my boat you see a boat with at least one firearm aboard and many, many implements at hand that could be and WOULD be used as weapons in a desparate situation. And that guy you see in the cockpit is not going to weakly submit to criminal demands or threats. Others are welcome to do so, if that is their preference. I accept anyone's decision to simply be a nice compliant victim. And I understand that in some parts of the world, it is not a choice, if one intends to obey the local law. But I would rather just stay where I have a perfectly ordinary legal right to have a gun, and have one. Or more than one.

I think I will unsubscribe from this thead pretty soon. I believe all has been said and little has been heard. This is a topic that not many people will bend on, either way.

[Steven UK]

Originally Posted by Therapy

For those who continue to vilify the US because we have so many gun nuts, please take 6.5 minutes out of your day.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/pELwCq...&autoplay=true

That was interesting... When I came to this country (US from UK) I was fascinated by guns and I do own several. But recently there seems to be an epidemic of mass shootings, I'm not saying banning guns would solve this problem but honestly wtf is going on.

I'll be living on board in LaPorte TX hopefully next year and I'm still unsure about the gun situation, take one or not?

[amytom]

I'll be living on board in LaPorte TX hopefully next year and I'm still unsure about the gun situation, take one or not?

Do a threat assessment. What is the biggest threat, the criminals or the government? (Maybe one in the same?). In the case of most of TX the biggest threat is the two bit criminal. The government there has little interest in interfering with your life.
Mexico on the other hand the government is the bigger threat and the way to minimize that threat is to give up your right (natural not just legal) to defend yourself with a force equalizing device.




Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

That was interesting... When I came to this country (US from UK) I was fascinated by guns and I do own several. But recently there seems to be an epidemic of mass shootings, I'm not saying banning guns would solve this problem but honestly wtf is going on.

I'll be living on board in LaPorte TX hopefully next year and I'm still unsure about the gun situation, take one or not?

Well you obviously own more than one gun, so by many standards you are a gun nutter. Yet, I don't fear you at all. What's up with that?