Taking a Shotgun to Bahamas from US and Back

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by pbiJim

The only issue I have with this perspective is that it relies on forward knowledge & I for one don't always enjoy that luxury. I travel by boat to explore new areas that I have not seen before. If I have been warned that a particular area is rough, then I tend to avoid it. However, occasionally I stumble upon a bad area that I was not warned about. In that situation, it is sometimes nice to have options.

Have you ever used "that" option.

[s/v Jedi]

For all those stating just to avoid "such" areas: have you ever considered how areas can change after events like natural disaster, political events etc.?
We followed that "don't go to bad areas" system and then found ourselves in Grenada after being hit by hurricane Ivan. The lower Woburn streetgangs started to loot the yachts, where they found guns, then started to shoot each other over which gangs has rights to loot which boats, giving us time to flee. The tricky part was before they got the guns; what do you do when a guy with a cutlass between his teeth swims to your boat and tells you he will not kill you if you let him rape your wife and take your money. What will you fight him with?

[chadc]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who don't want to have the means to effectively defend themselves if the need arises and thinks that people who do wish to have the means are some kind of idiot.

[DDabs]

The problem with the mantra of "just don't go to the bad areas" is that in today's world, who the hell knows what is safe any more. Here in the United States you can get shot going to the movie theater or grocery store. Having a gun on board doesn't mean you're going to whip it out and cock it at everything that comes close to your boat, it means having a reliable and honest way to protect your life when you're in a remote area with no other assistance. If I'm investing in the time and money to cruise around the world, I want to prepare myself as best I can.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by chadc

I'm always amazed at the number of people who don't want to have the means to effectively defend themselves if the need arises and thinks that people who do wish to have the means are some kind of idiot.

You make it sound like you can just sail around the world and have a gun on board without a problem, or can legally use one to defend yourself.

The world is bigger then just the US; very few countries are as gun friendly as the US and many have different laws when it comes to self defense.

I can't even have a flare gun without a weapons permit ... so I don't have one. Too much hassle for the permit and the required save for keeping gun and flares separate etc.

Add to that the fact that I'd go to jail for murder if I shot an intruder who doesn't have a loaded gun ... And if they do have a gun, they'll have it ready while I'd need time to go get the gun and ammo out of their separate storage spaces. I doubt they'd kindly wait for me to get ready.

I am not for or against guns, nor do I feel one choice makes you a smarter or better person then another. I do think it's a little ignorant to act as if the laws (both for having and for using) guns are more or less the same worldwide as they are in the US, as that is very much not the case.

All in all, my personal choice is not to risk bringing any kind of firearm / weapon with me. Too much of a (legal) hassle especially since the chances of needing one are very minimal, all things considered.

[s/v Jedi]

An American binging a gun aboard to an EU country is much easier than a EU citizen bringing a gun aboard to the USA. I plan to sail to the US again and will have to decide what to do: fill out heaps of forms or dump the gun overboard. Same for Mexico I understand.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

The world is bigger then just the US; very few countries are as gun friendly as the US and many have different laws when it comes to self defense.

Add to that the fact that I'd go to jail for murder if I shot an intruder who doesn't have a loaded gun ... And if they do have a gun, they'll have it ready while I'd need time to go get the gun and ammo out of their separate storage spaces. I doubt they'd kindly wait for me to get ready.

I do think it's a little ignorant to act as if the laws (both for having and for using) guns are more or less the same worldwide as they are in the US, as that is very much not the case.

All in all, my personal choice is not to risk bringing any kind of firearm / weapon with me. Too much of a (legal) hassle especially since the chances of needing one are very minimal, all things considered.

The world is bigger than just the U.S.! Really? That sounds very condescending, do you seriously think that there's anyone that doesn't realize that the laws are different wherever we may roam?

So going to jail for murder is worse than being raped and killed? You'd still be alive at least. Oh, and no gun is needed to rape and kill someone......if they're breaking in knowing full well that you're there, them having a gun or not is moot IMHO.

Again, you speak down to someone you disagree with. You try to sound neutral, yet you call someone ignorant (just a little though). Do you seriously think he doesn't know that the gun laws through out the world are different? Really? So you know he knows, right? Why the condescending attitude?

The odds of needing an Epirb are minimal too.

It's o.k. to totally disagree with anyone and everyone. Being condescending about it isn't. That's just me though, I could be wrong.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

You try to sound neutral,

I was expressing an opinion, which isn't staying neutral. If I was trying to stay neutral, not posting would have been the way to do that.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by chadc

I'm always amazed at the number of people who don't want to have the means to effectively defend themselves if the need arises and thinks that people who do wish to have the means are some kind of idiot.

I think the exact word used was "ignorant".

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

So going to jail for murder is worse than being raped and killed? You'd still be alive at least. Oh, and no gun is needed to rape and kill someone......if they're breaking in knowing full well that you're there, them having a gun or not is moot IMHO.

Off topic but I would MUCH rather be dead than spend life in prison for murder!

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

...do you seriously think that there's anyone that doesn't realize that the laws are different wherever we may roam?

Well, yeah, actually there are a whole lot of threads around here where you will find people making statements, or asking questions, that clearly imply that they think the laws are just the same all around the world. A whole bunch of people don't seem to "get" the fact that every country has its own laws, and they can be completely different from the country right next door.

For example, see the thread "Is an Air Rifle a Firearm?" It's a generic question. No specification about exactly where we are talking about. Several answers are the same--yes or no, but no indication of what country they are referring to. As if one definition fits everywhere. Of course, a number of people pointed out that the laws vary. And then along comes someone else and asks if a slingshot is a firearm, once again as if the laws are the same everywhere in the world.

So, the short answer to your question is, yes, there are a fair number of people who do not appear to realize that the laws are different wherever we may roam.

(Never mind the many postings that ask for a surveyor, or a good mechanic, or whatever else, and never mention where they are. As if the entire community of the internet lives in their back yard. Guess what? A surveyor in Australia isn't going to do you much good if you're buying a boat in France!)

[sailnow2011]

Look at all the gun fearing people... lol
They may be afraid of shadows too.

[Rock-Head]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Off topic but I would MUCH rather be dead than spend life in prison for murder!

I think that scenario would be a toss up for me. Worm dirt or eternity in a 3rd world prison... valid point.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by Rock-Head

I think that scenario would be a toss up for me. Worm dirt or eternity in a 3rd world prison... valid point.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

In one scenario you have a chance.
Needless to say you could run, very fast, to a US embassy if you had to, and report the crime there.

[Ribbit]

Any means you use to legitimately defend yourself, are legitimised in the process.

There is long standing case precedence for this.

For example, if you are attacked by people with machine guns, where it is illegal to own a machinegun, and you manage to take one off your attackers and successfully defend yourself with it, you cannot have committed an offence in the process, because your self defence was legitimate, and 'ANY' means to hand are thereby legitimised.

Of course if your defence lawyers themselves don't understand the fundamental principles, then you are in for a hiding in Court (in a case that shouldn't even get to Court). As happened to the farmer Tony Martin here in the UK, where the incompetence of his lawyers saw him end up in jail, for doing something perfectly legal.

The same is also true if you have an 'illegal' firearm. Legitimate defensive use legitimises that weapon.

By the way there is chapter and verse evidence that has been accumulated by the American Justice Department, that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the very worst and most dangerous thing you can do with an attacker, is submit to their demands. A response to such attacks, that is the 'Official' Police recommended course of action in the UK.

After commentary from the likes of the Head of Interpol, for example, I don't see the irrational hatred of inanimate objects lasting for much longer.

As George Orwell said (and as usual, he was right):

“The notion that you can somehow defeat violence by submitting to it is simply a flight from fact. As I have said, it is only possible to people who have money and guns between themselves and reality.”

It is an unusual paradox that the politicians that want to see us disarmed and unable to defend ourselves, generally carry guns themselves (even if they don't broadcast that fact), plus are surrounded by armed bodyguards.

Since I was shot by a nutter in 1989 (in a pure fluke, it turned out that the plastic lenses in my glasses were to the same ballistic standard as shooting glasses, so saved me from being blinded or dead - but boy did I have a black eye - by the time the second shot was fired, I was behind cover, I didn't know I could move so fast), I have looked into this subject quite deeply, and while it is bad enough for a man to be put into such an appalling position of helplessness, for women it can be far worse. I don't want anybody to experience just how bad that is.

As such, I think every woman should be encouraged to have a pistol for her protection, in her purse, and from what I have seen, women can quickly become excellent and safe shots.