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Old 29-12-2014, 00:06   #61
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

Personally I think most people don't care or understand much of the relative differences if they are monos,multis or the high tech maxis.Its all about the spectacle.To sailing purists I do understand their issue with the motors however I still like watching all boats sail in anger.
I don't really care who wins or how they do it within the rules but as an Aussie Im glad we beat Comanche but if she comes back for another crack I reckon we need a new weapon.Maybe we need to whip the hat around for Oatley as he might be getting a little low on spare funds
I did ask earlier but did a multihull race exist to Hobart?
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Old 29-12-2014, 00:12   #62
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
whether it's the fastest boat ( of type) in the world remains to be seen. A day before the race one of the co owners made mention that Comanche will need the wind to get up for it to out perform any rival. And as was seen she didn't have the get up and go in mild winds.

For my money, I'm still thinking the bigger they are the bigger they fall.
If the hype is accurate, one of the design goals for Comanche was to win line honours in this race. The S2H is quite often a heavy weather event, so perhaps the compromises inherent in boat design were slanted towards stronger winds, and when they didn't happen they were stuffed.

Or maybe it just isn't as good a boat as WO. Mr Oatley has spent many years and many dollars specializing in this event, and that cumulative knowledge is telling on race day.

Without having done a careful examination of the data, it appeared that whilst sailing to windward down the NSW coast Comanche did keep WO under control. It was in moderate reaching conditions that WO blew them away, building such a big lead that when the wind picked up they were out of range for C.

Interesting race, but I still wish the engines were not used.

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Old 29-12-2014, 00:35   #63
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
Personally I think most people don't care or understand much of the relative differences if they are monos,multis or the high tech maxis.Its all about the spectacle.To sailing purists I do understand their issue with the motors however I still like watching all boats sail in anger.
I don't really care who wins or how they do it within the rules but as an Aussie Im glad we beat Comanche but if she comes back for another crack I reckon we need a new weapon.Maybe we need to whip the hat around for Oatley as he might be getting a little low on spare funds
I did ask earlier but did a multihull race exist to Hobart?
Chris

Most people don't even know the maxi's are using engines to "sail". It's not exactly publicised is it?
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Old 29-12-2014, 01:05   #64
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

Who gives a stuff weather these super maxis have engines to power up there systems I certainly don't give a s%#} I like all forms of yachting and yacht racing .

I started this thread on the basis of wishing all those taking part a safe trip and hope they all arrive safely and to high light the comradeship shown amongst yachtsman & women like I mentioned in the start of the thread Then like most threads on cruising forum it diverts from the subject. We have people whinging away because the fastest yachts albeit be it a triraman or cataraman are not in it or not allowed to enter .

What I say to you is why moan and whinge and get of your backsides and lobby the likes of royal Sydney yacht squadron for them to be included in the race or any other race after all it is a handicap race .

And some people forget when people commission yachts like this it generates a lot of income for people in construction and suppliers And funny thing Commanche might be American flagged yacht but is owned by a American & Australian .

Ps I have done 5 Sydney to Hobart and 11 Melbourne to Hobart and know how demanding this is on crews yachts and yacht owners pockets they do because they love doing it
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Old 29-12-2014, 01:35   #65
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
Who gives a stuff weather these super maxis have engines to power up there systems I certainly don't give a s%#} I like all forms of yachting and yacht racing
.I give a stuff. And I like all forms of sail boat racing, I dont like any form of motor sailer racing

Quote:
We have people whinging away because the fastest yachts albeit be it a triraman or cataraman are not in it or not allowed to enter .
I am not whinging, I am simply saying they let boats with engines run, but not the fastest sailing boats. Thats all.
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What I say to you is why moan and whinge and get of your backsides and lobby the likes of royal Sydney yacht squadron for them to be included in the race or any other race after all it is a handicap race .
And why would I bother, The organisers haven't listened to one of their own club members, sean Langman, who owns Team Australia and has been leading this race for most of it in the beautiful old Maluka. Why then would I bother.
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Old 29-12-2014, 01:45   #66
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

First of all I hope Sean Langman on muluka of kermide gets across the line and wins the IRC all divisions only 102 miles to go and yes he has done a lot for australian yachting and considering Muluka is some 80 yrs old is testament to its design and construction

And secondly I didn't name any one whinging but if the cap fits wear it
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Old 29-12-2014, 01:57   #67
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
First of all I hope Sean Langman on muluka of kermide gets across the line and wins the IRC all divisions only 102 miles to go and yes he has done a lot for australian yachting and considering Muluka is some 80 yrs old is testament to its design and construction

And secondly I didn't name any one whinging but if the cap fits wear it
No mate - cap doesn't fit. In fact I haven't seen anyone at all whining whinging or complaining, just making valid observations that appear to upset some. No caps here. you say

Quote:
We have people whinging away because the fastest yachts albeit be it a triraman or cataraman are not in it or not allowed to enter .
so who was doing the whinging, someone was, and apparently it wasn't me. So who was it. I really dislike tangential side swipes that insult a range of people but then are immediately backed away from, slightly lacking in many respects.
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Old 29-12-2014, 02:54   #68
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Most people don't even know the maxi's are using engines to "sail". It's not exactly publicised is it?
that is funny

i was even more confused when these maxis were practising in harbour instead in ocean.

It is ocean race and not lake race.

Go in ocean swell, do 9 kn in 3kn of wind and you my hero
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Old 29-12-2014, 04:40   #69
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
Who gives a stuff weather these super maxis have engines to power up there systems I certainly don't give a s%#} I like all forms of yachting and yacht racing .

I started this thread on the basis of wishing all those taking part a safe trip and hope they all arrive safely and to high light the comradeship shown amongst yachtsman & women like I mentioned in the start of the thread Then like most threads on cruising forum it diverts from the subject. We have people whinging away because the fastest yachts albeit be it a triraman or cataraman are not in it or not allowed to enter .

What I say to you is why moan and whinge and get of your backsides and lobby the likes of royal Sydney yacht squadron for them to be included in the race or any other race after all it is a handicap race .

And some people forget when people commission yachts like this it generates a lot of income for people in construction and suppliers And funny thing Commanche might be American flagged yacht but is owned by a American & Australian .

Ps I have done 5 Sydney to Hobart and 11 Melbourne to Hobart and know how demanding this is on crews yachts and yacht owners pockets they do because they love doing it
Take a chill pill dude. It 'was' a friendly bit of chatter until you took, whatever it was you took personally and start getting upset.
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Old 29-12-2014, 04:57   #70
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
.......
I did ask earlier but did a multihull race exist to Hobart?
Chris
AFAIK, no but sometime back (decade or more) I think that one or more multis left Sydney at the same time with the intention of following the fleet but they never got the chance to mix with the fleet as they were way too fast and lead the whole way.

Perhaps someone else knows more...
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Old 29-12-2014, 08:40   #71
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

Maluka of Kermandie is projected to be second in her division, behind Wild Rose, but Maluka has some ten hours to go to her finish. It would be nice to hear more stories about the boats other than the big maxis.
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Old 29-12-2014, 09:01   #72
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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The "fight" people are supposedly tuning in to watch is between 2 billionaires. America's cup has been dominated, and to my mind ruined, by two egocentric billionaires from the US and Switzerland. The major regattas on the Med are dominated by maxis, all owned by billionaires or their companies (and subsidized by taxpayers as a result, of course). Big boat racing is just as dominated now by the elite rich as it was at the turn of the 20th century. Top sailors back then were in the employ of people like Lipton and Vanderbilt just as they are now by Ellison and Clark. The difference is that now 'Oracle" is splashed all over everything whereas as I don't believe Lipton's sails carried any tea logos. I see scant change there.

I see little point in making sailboat racing a big media sport and certainly don't see it as making boat racing any more egalitarian than it once was. External sponsors that do see it as a true marketing opportunity are typically the likes of Rolex and Louis Vuitton, who (I suspect) are also the primary outside sponsors at the local polo club, and I haven't seen that change in my 35 years of racing. There is virtually no 'trickle-down' effect from such yacht racing sponsorship that I have seen. The French support of single handed racing I see as being pretty much a one-off. Most countries are lucky if there are one or two nationally known racers, save NZ and Australia.

I just see it differently. I must be getting old.
Yes you are right, top sailing is still dominated by billionaires and the only way to modify that is to make it a popular sport whose publicity revenues allow sponsorship for top boats and top professional racers.

Yes, France is an exception and even if the focus is in solo or short crew sailing (that anyway is increasing and I think it will be pretty much the future of sailing) it is not by any means limited to that. Crewed sail racing is also on the program.

Most of top boats, if not all, in France are owned by sponsors and they are not only used on solo racing. As an example I can give you the victory of Franck Cammas and his team on the las VOR, aboard Groupama, owned by a French insurance company, or the absolute circumnavigation sail record, first owned by Cammas and his team on the trimaran Groupama and then beaten by Peyron and his team on the trimaran Banque Populaire, owned by the French bank.

All that crewed those boats were well paid professionals and for each one of them there are dozens of other professionals sailing on smaller categories with boats owned not by them but by the Sponsors, like most of these.





Yes France is an exception but that is just because on France sail is a popular sport and that means that it has a large news coverage, including TV and for being popular..... it has to be spectacular. Without that, top sailing will remain not on the hands of the best sailors but on the hands of billionaires.
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Old 29-12-2014, 09:09   #73
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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AFAIK, no but sometime back (decade or more) I think that one or more multis left Sydney at the same time with the intention of following the fleet but they never got the chance to mix with the fleet as they were way too fast and lead the whole way.

Perhaps someone else knows more...
Last year that was an attempt to do that but they give up. I have nor heard anything about this year. If they would mix with the fleet they would be news and would be filmed and that was not the case.

I am all in favor of the multihulls to be allowed on this and all races but I think you are wrong: From all races this is the one where they would stand a bigger chance to be beaten by monohulls, at least in what regards what they have on that part of the world that are some older modified ORMA boats. I have many doubts that on the Sydney Hobart conditions the 60ft trimarans would be a match for the 100ft monohull but certainly I would very much like to see that.
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Old 29-12-2014, 11:41   #74
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

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Yes you are right, top sailing is still dominated by billionaires and the only way to modify that is to make it a popular sport whose publicity revenues allow sponsorship for top boats and top professional racers.

Yes, France is an exception and even if the focus is in solo or short crew sailing (that anyway is increasing and I think it will be pretty much the future of sailing) it is not by any means limited to that. Crewed sail racing is also on the program.

Most of top boats, if not all, in France are owned by sponsors and they are not only used on solo racing. As an example I can give you the victory of Franck Cammas and his team on the las VOR, aboard Groupama, owned by a French insurance company, or the absolute circumnavigation sail record, first owned by Cammas and his team on the trimaran Groupama and then beaten by Peyron and his team on the trimaran Banque Populaire, owned by the French bank.

All that crewed those boats were well paid professionals and for each one of them there are dozens of other professionals sailing on smaller categories with boats owned not by them but by the Sponsors,
Yes France is an exception but that is just because on France sail is a popular sport and that means that it has a large news coverage, including TV and for being popular..... it has to be spectacular. Without that, top sailing will remain not on the hands of the best sailors but on the hands of billionaires.
Well said, and good vids!
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Old 29-12-2014, 14:28   #75
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Re: Sydney to Hobart yacht race

I know this may be unpopular with the people who think the S2H should be for monos only, but it seems to me that the sail boats-without-motors-for-canting-keels-and-powered-winches group might actually welcome a catamaran division. Given that the consensus here is that the cats are lots faster, it could be a pursuit race, and that could be really exciting. You'd want media reps on the pursuing cats, even plain radio, and it could be a lot more fun for a lot of people.

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