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Old 14-12-2015, 13:22   #106
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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It seems you don't know since you did not reply when I asked for you to say what they used for production of energy for all systems on that old ORMA 60, the fastest Australian multihull ocean racer. Well, I will answer for you: mainly the engine. It seems you don't know that they use hydraulics too.
You're not as knowledgeable as you claim to be are you?

The ORMA 60's and MOD 70's hydraulic systems are powered by humans. Grinding pedestals turn the hydraulic pumps, not an engine.

Sean Langman used to sail S to H on the big supermaxi's. It was his dislike of the use of constantly running engines that drove him to stop sailing them.

It's idiotic to suggest he'd then go and buy a boat that needed an engine running in order to sail.
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:05   #107
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I don't think so.
Think what you like, I've been on Oats, a number of sailing friends do post race deliveries on her, the fact is racing or delivering, no running engine means no sailing. Can I be any clearer than that.
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:34   #108
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

I am sure Bob Oatey will ponder greatly and give all due consideration to the informed views expressed here on Cruisers Forum as he raises the cup once again and sips his victory champagne.
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Old 14-12-2015, 15:52   #109
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I am sure Bob Oatey will ponder greatly and give all due consideration to the informed views expressed here on Cruisers Forum as he raises the cup once again and sips his victory champagne.
I'm sure he won't. But he should. He should consider trying to win the race using a boat that doesn't need to run a 150hp engine 24/7.

He should consider trying to get these motorboats banned form the S 2 H race. It's supposed to be a sailboat race.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:01   #110
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Bob became a multibillionaire by bringing automated techniques to the wine industry. I am sure there were plenty of old farts who said wine was not wine when you make it with a motor, instead of by hand, but Bob went ahead anyway.

Some people simply cannot cope with the relentless passage of technology.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:12   #111
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

WHat a ridiculous statement. IT'S A SAILBOAT RACE!


If he wants to race motorboats there are plenty of opportunities to do it.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:17   #112
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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You're not as knowledgeable as you claim to be are you?

.
44C, can you put your views across without the need to be condescending. That's what will get people of the defensive and it's not necessary and will begin a downward spiral to abuse.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:41   #113
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Wild Oats is a sailboat. It is 100% propelled by wind. That is irrefutable.

It uses motor power to harness the wind more effectively.

You can use all of the invective you like, but it will not mask that you cannot accept the passage of technology that challenges your outdated ideas of what a sailboat is.

At the end of the day however, Mark Richards (whose experience would vastly exceed anyone on this forum), the public, the race authorities, the media, and most modern thinking people are completely on board.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:36   #114
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

100% powered by wind, unless the engine stops. then it's 100% stuffed.


So I guess you'd say that it would be fine for someone to use a sniper's rifle in an archery contest? A drag car in a footrace? Maybe take a gun to a boxing match?


Just technology, after all. Your comparison of a sporting event with an industrial process was laughable.


The fact is, most people have no idea that WOXI needs to run it's engine all the way to Hobart. It's certainly never been publicised in the coverage. And very likely never will be. It's not something they seem happy to talk about.


Even supposedly knowledgeable people like Polux don't realise it needs it's engine running 100% of the time, cant "sail" without it.


So to say people are completely on board is rubbish. Most people simply don't know. If they did know, I doubt if many would be "on board" at all.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:42   #115
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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100% powered by wind, unless the engine stops. then it's 100% stuffed.

And that's fine. They are out of the race then. If they can't operate the equipment, then no problems they are out of the race. It's still powered by the wind 100%.. yes.


So I guess you'd say that it would be fine for someone to use a sniper's rifle in an archery contest? A drag car in a footrace? Maybe take a gun to a boxing match? Or a sail boat to a sail boat race?


Just technology, after all. Your comparison of a sporting event with an industrial process was laughable.


The fact is, most people have no idea that WOXI needs to run it's engine all the way to Hobart. It's certainly never been publicised in the coverage. And very likely never will be. It's not something they seem happy to talk about. I googled it and it's been well publicised. I don't believe it's debatable and I don't actually see anyone on CF debating it.


Even supposedly knowledgeable people like Polux don't realise it needs it's engine running 100% of the time, cant "sail" without it. Unless I've misunderstood I have picked up that Polux does recognise this.


So to say people are completely on board is rubbish. Most people simply don't know. If they did know, I doubt if many would be "on board" at all.
Why do you feel the need to keep labouring on about this?
The race is as it is.. if your that upset about it, why don't you write to the Committee and lobby for such boats to be out of the race?
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:46   #116
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Wild Oats is a sailboat. It is 100% propelled by wind. That is irrefutable.
It uses motor power to harness the wind more effectively.
You can use all of the invective you like, but it will not mask that you cannot accept the passage of technology that challenges your outdated ideas of what a sailboat is.
At the end of the day however, Mark Richards (whose experience would vastly exceed anyone on this forum), the public, the race authorities, the media, and most modern thinking people are completely on board.
Well, I don't dispute it's 100% sail boat. It is propelled by any definition by the wind so yes, it's a 100% sail boat. I can't subscribe to those claiming it's a a motorsailor at all.

But, I'd personally like to see the S2H return to a 100% manual, non push button, vessels. I can see the trend continuing to include large sail boats that are drones if this keeps going. Or, no need to be sitting on deck in the cold, icy waters, but all down stairs in front of computer screens. or even worse, and going the way of the America's Cup.
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Old 14-12-2015, 17:51   #117
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

I think you've misunderstood RD, I don't believe Polux, or most people for that matter, realised that WO11 needs her engine running all the time. Polux doesn't understand the hydraulic systems on the other boats he's saying need the engine too...

It seems a bit wrong to me that you need to run the engine to put the sails up on a racing sailboat and then keep it running to trim the sails etc.

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Old 14-12-2015, 17:56   #118
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Apparently the reason they give is that they are not safe enough for this type of event due to the sea conditions.

That is rather lame...and I agree that it is a senseless argument. Cats and trimarans are allowed on many other races and I would like to see how they would perform on this one, specially cruiser racers, like Catanas, Outremer or Gunboat.
Seems a weak argument to not allow cats or tris.

Must be those over inflated maxi egos that cant stand competition.

I've lost interest in the wild oats show.

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Old 14-12-2015, 18:02   #119
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I think you've misunderstood RD, I don't believe Polux, or most people for that matter, realised that WO11 needs her engine running all the time. Polux doesn't understand the hydraulic systems on the other boats he's saying need the engine too...

It seems a bit wrong to me that you need to run the engine to put the sails up on a racing sailboat and then keep it running to trim the sails etc.

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Well Polux can answer for himself, but he seems to me to have a very good grasp of the issues. And with all the constant repeating on this thread of 'WO2 runs it's engines 24/7' I don't know how anyone can miss that point. IN fact, I've not seen anyone, including Polux dispute that. But to me it seems to be a design choice that they chose to modify the vessel and run the engine instead 24/7. They didn't have to make that design choice and as I've pointed out, the other big Maxi's didn't follow suit.

And yes I too don't like the fact that you need to run an engine to raise the sails. But to me it's no different than running the sails up electrically or hydrolically. It's still the sails that make the boat run with the wind, it's not the engine. I too would like to see this gone which is where I certainly disagree with Polux view that the technology is a positive improvement.
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Old 14-12-2015, 18:04   #120
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I think I agree with you Polux, if your saying that using an engine for purposes other than propulsion does not alter whether a boat is a 'sail boat' or a 'motor boat'.

For me, I'd be quite happy if they let multi' race. But, they need to draw the line as I wouldn't be very impressed to see the 'sail' boats being used in the Americas cup participating at all.

I'm not that impressed at these big maxi's racing in it. Nothing to do with them having to run an engine for electrics or hydrolics as I personally don't think that's much different to a cruising boat having an engine to run a water maker etc. what I don't like about the maxi's is that the media and public treat the race as 'over' once all the maxi's are in. It's taken away the glory of the race from those boats that traditionslly were 'cruisers' and turned one of the most famous and challenging races in the world into an exceptionally rich elite professional race that's over in two days.

There seem to be few famous races left that are for 'normal' sail boats.
+1

I don't bother watching the STH race anymore as there is no coverage of the fleet just the same boring maxis.

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