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Old 13-12-2015, 23:21   #76
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't understand your superiority outlook regarding that comment. It seems to me that the Wild Oats energy needs would not be much different from Comanche or the other Maxi and they don't run the engine full time because they have a battery bank.

Anyway any big ocean racer has to run the engine or a generator for charging batteries some hours a day. Are they motorsailers while they are charging the batteries? and sailboats when they stop to charge them and sail without having a engine or a generator working?
Obviously it depends on what systems rely on engine power to operate them.

Wild Oats uses hydraulics to power all the systems the boat relies on to sail. Sheet winches, halyard winches, the canting keel... If the engine isn't running the boat can't be sailed. The engine in Wild Oats is NEVER stopped during a race.

Some other boats run generators but purely to operate communications, and maybe navigations electronics. But NOT sailing systems. If the engine stops they can keep right on sailing. And most of the time the engine is NOT running.

Can you see the distinction there? With Wild Oats, and the like, no engine, no go. Other boats can keep on sailing whether the engine is running or not.
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Old 13-12-2015, 23:23   #77
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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They use the engine to produce energy, could use a generator? What is the difference? How do you think ocean racing multihulls produce energy to run their systems?
What systems? Ocean racing multihulls don't have canting keels or hydraulic winches.

The SAILING systems are human powered.
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Old 13-12-2015, 23:50   #78
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

I think you guys are being a bit unfair to Polux. All he's suggesting (I think) is that Wild Oats could install a battery bank and thereby turn the engine of like the other vessels. Comanche has similar power needs. Wild Oats isn't the only one.

Personally it makes no difference to me. I just don't think these big boats so dependent on computers and engines should be in a sail race. But like Polux, I wouldn't call them 'motor sailors'. That's just taking it too far.
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Old 13-12-2015, 23:59   #79
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I think you guys are being a bit unfair to Polux. All he's suggesting (I think) is that Wild Oats could install a battery bank and thereby turn the engine of like the other vessels. Comanche has similar power needs. Wild Oats isn't the only one.

.
But the fact is, they COULDN'T simply fit batteries and switch the engine off. It's a 150hp engine! It powers every sailing system on the boat. (Apart from the steering, presumably)

Read Sean Langman's article. These engines are running hard to power the sailing systems. To do it by battery would require massive battery banks, and the boat would barely float! It certainly wouldn't be fast.

Comanche can in fact be sailed without needing it's engine running. They needed to be able to do that so they could set (monohull) sailing records.

But yes, you're right, Wild Oats isn't the only one.
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Old 14-12-2015, 00:05   #80
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
But the fact is, they COULDN'T simply fit batteries and switch the engine off. It's a 150hp engine! It powers every sailing system on the boat. (Apart from the steering, presumably)

Read Sean Langman's article. These engines are running hard to power the sailing systems. To do it by battery would require massive battery banks, and the boat would barely float! It certainly wouldn't be fast.

Comanche can in fact be sailed without needing it's engine running. They needed to be able to do that so they could set (monohull) sailing records.

But yes, you're right, Wild Oats isn't the only one.
Ok, that's interesting. Which other boats of Wild Oats size, with its needs of hydrolics etc, rely on only an engine alone? Are there others?
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Old 14-12-2015, 01:06   #81
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
a motorsailor is a sailboat that uses sails and an engine for propulsion. it is not the case with any of the boats racing the Sydney-Hobart.

.....
Hmm...
If the boat sails faster with the engine running, then it seems to me at least, the engine is been used for propulsion. Thus by your definition, a motorsailor.
No???
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Old 14-12-2015, 01:18   #82
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Hmm...
If the boat sails faster with the engine running, then it seems to me at least, the engine is been used for propulsion. Thus by your definition, a motorsailor.
No???
Which boat in the race is being used to 'propel' the boat? Can you name an example of it?
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Old 14-12-2015, 01:27   #83
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Which boat in the race is being used to 'propel' the boat? Can you name an example of it?
The most obvious is Wild Oats but as others have posted, not the only one (apparently).
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Old 14-12-2015, 01:33   #84
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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The most obvious is Wild Oats but as others have posted, not the only one (apparently).
But no one apart from yourself is suggesting Wild Oats is 'propelled' by its engine? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. (Pretty sure but not certain)
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Old 14-12-2015, 01:59   #85
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Saw KATO flying past quite a bit out on the water up north and thought it would give most of the Hobart entries a hurry up as is but I did here him say he wanted something quicker.
Do you know what it wil be?
Motor running or not I still love watching the big boats power up and any way I'm happy watching all boats sailing or motor sailing.As far as I am concerned the current Sydney Hobart is a mono race and it should stay that way.If multi guys want to race that course well then maybe they should start another race.Is it possible to hanicap monos and Cats in a single event.
Sort of reminds me of what Bathurst used to be about with every day mugs mixing it with semi pros in hotted up production cars to today's fiasco of the V8 Supercars.Every day mugs can still do the STH but can't get a look in at Bathurst.
He's building another one that's longer and leaner. Another Schionning

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Old 14-12-2015, 02:05   #86
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Talking Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
But no one apart from yourself is suggesting Wild Oats is 'propelled' by its engine? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. (Pretty sure but not certain)
I'm not suggesting the Wild Oats is breaking any SH rules!

I enjoy seeing Wild Oats race against other Super Maxis.
I enjoy seeing other maxis race against each other.
And I particularly enjoy hearing about the tussles between the "normal" boats and like you, I sorry the media doesn't give us much coverage of the middle fleet.

But many don't realize (as evidenced even in this thread), boats like Wild Oats run a very powerful engine 24/7 that allow the boat to go faster. The only way I know to increase the speed of of boat is to propel it by some method. Traditionally sail boats used the wind to do this. WO uses the wind and its engine to go faster than using the wind alone. I accept that they don't use a propeller but let's not kid ourselves that the engine isn't being used to make the boat go faster. Not to accept that, once informed, is IMO, hypocrisy.

YMMV

EDIT: How else can the use of an engine that increases boat speed be explained other than as "propulsion"?
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Old 14-12-2015, 02:13   #87
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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But no one apart from yourself is suggesting Wild Oats is 'propelled' by its engine? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. (Pretty sure but not certain)
I understand the point he, and 44c, are making. Wild Oats can NOT be propelled AT ALL without the engine running. No battery technology could support their requirements for POWER TO SAIL THE BOAT.

Apologies for the caps but it seems people don't want to believe how Wild Oats 11 is setup.

As an aside, I sailed past her last weekend and she is looking sweeeeeeet! For a motorsailor

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Old 14-12-2015, 02:25   #88
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I understand the point he, and 44c, are making. Wild Oats can NOT be propelled AT ALL without the engine running. No battery technology could support their requirements for POWER TO SAIL THE BOAT.

Apologies for the caps but it seems people don't want to believe how Wild Oats 11 is setup.

As an aside, I sailed past her last weekend and she is looking sweeeeeeet! For a motorsailor

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Well from what I've been googling this evening, Wild Oats has pretty much the same 'power' requirements as some of the other big Maxie's. But Wild Oats made an alteration and decided to run its engine 24/7 in order to lesson weight by dispensing with the need for a battery bank.

So please tell, is there any other maxi that decided to do the same thing and dispense with a battery bank?

Can you cite the explanation that there is 'no technology to support their power to sail? And this time please don't yell. Apologizing and then deliberation yelling to get your point across is still unnecessary.
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Old 14-12-2015, 02:39   #89
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Let's not get sidetracked about the additional power source being diesel or electric. If the main purpose of the power source is to make the boat go faster than using wind alone, then the vessel is no longer a "sail boat", but a power assited sail boat, IMO.
If the power source is used only for crew comforts, navigation and safety etc, then that is a different kettle of fish and the vessel remains a "sail boat", again IMO.
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Old 14-12-2015, 03:44   #90
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

you guys are killing me.
are there people doing the S2H for sheer fun or with the goal of not beeing last?
if so, i'm available for crew
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