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Old 11-12-2015, 19:14   #46
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't know that well the top boats that race on the Hobart but making a generic statement that canting keel monohull racers have to run the engine full time on a race reveals a lot of ignorance as well to think that on long range courses multihulls don't use the engine for energy production.

On long range races with canting keel boats, like the Vendee Globe circumnavigation they take about 100 to 150L for the full circumnavigation and they cannot use it to propel the boat but only for the production of energy for all on board systems. In fact the engine is used as a generator, not like a boat engine.

Regarding transatlantic top races with monohulls and multihulls both types of boats use the engine as a generator for production of energy (about 2/3 hours a day). In fact on the last big professional transat race the only boat that used only electricity and not a thermic engine was a monohull, not a multihull.

Calling motorsailors to monohulls or multihulls that use the engine as a generateur to produce energy for electrical and hydraulic systems on long races it is just ridiculous.

On the last non stop circumnavigation there was a boat (a monohull canting keeler) that used only renewable energies, not using a thermic engine as a generator and in fact it is possible at the state of the art, even if the boats become a bit heavier. There are talks about making that a demand for future circumnavigation races. I am all in favor of that.

This one, a canting keeler, used only renewable energies for all electric and hydraulic systems on the last Vendee Globe:

Polux,

I think you will find the Vendee Globe race rules different from S to H.

Wild Oates has to run its motor 100% of time. Others don't.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:37   #47
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Polux,

I think you will find the Vendee Globe race rules different from S to H.

Wild Oates has to run its motor 100% of time. Others don't.

Yes rules can change but the only reason a boat like Wild Oates has to run the engine 100% of the time it is because it has no batteries to store the electric energy, to make it lighter. A racing boat like that can be easily provided with the means to use only the engine some hours a day for charging the batteries.

In fact that was nothing to do with being a monohull or multihull but with an odd radical decision to make it completely dependent of a continuously running engine for energy production and for running all systems. The boat has not even manual backups.

I don't like it at all, but again it has nothing to do with being monohull or multihull. In what regards ocean racing multihulls use the engine to charge the batteries several hours a day, like the monohulls.

There are some Ocean racers completely autonomous regarding the use of the engine but the ones I know are all monohulls. The system is not used more time because the boats are more heavy and therefore less competitive but I think that should be made a rule. That way all would be in equal circumstances and that will allow for the fast development of better technologies that we could use for cruising.

Don't mean that for safety they could not have the possibility of using the engine for charging batteries, just needed to make it so heavily penalized that it would not be worth it, except for safety reasons.
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Old 12-12-2015, 12:58   #48
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Do you just invent justifications for your positions. Serious question.

The fact that Oats runs its engines 100% has everything to do with the fact that its a mono, a canting keel mono to be specific. And thus its a sail boat that MUST motor, not could motor or uses energy for systems to assist, but MUST motor. You would want a **** load of battery to move that keel around.

My fundamental position applies, a boat that MUST run its motor hardly classifies as a sail boat.

I have sailed from Mooloolaba to Melbourne with out running the motor, not for a single minute, Oats can't sail across Sydney harbour without running its engine.
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Old 12-12-2015, 14:02   #49
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Do you just invent justifications for your positions. Serious question.

The fact that Oats runs its engines 100% has everything to do with the fact that its a mono, a canting keel mono to be specific. And thus its a sail boat that MUST motor, not could motor or uses energy for systems to assist, but MUST motor. You would want a **** load of battery to move that keel around.

My fundamental position applies, a boat that MUST run its motor hardly classifies as a sail boat.

I have sailed from Mooloolaba to Melbourne with out running the motor, not for a single minute, Oats can't sail across Sydney harbour without running its engine.
Well, I think it's your personal 'fundamental position'. I think most people, dictionaries, all known definitions would call a 'sail boat' any boat that uses 'sails' to propel itself. So your pretty much on your own.

Though, like I said, I don't like them either, but it's because it takes away the attention from the traditional sail boats.
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Old 12-12-2015, 14:10   #50
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Do you just invent justifications for your positions. Serious question.

The fact that Oats runs its engines 100% has everything to do with the fact that its a mono, a canting keel mono to be specific. And thus its a sail boat that MUST motor, not could motor or uses energy for systems to assist, but MUST motor. You would want a **** load of battery to move that keel around.

My fundamental position applies, a boat that MUST run its motor hardly classifies as a sail boat.
.........
To add to this point, running it's engine allows for the boat to sail faster and point higher so the end result is the engine aids its sailing performace. Starting to sound like a motor sailor...
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Old 12-12-2015, 14:44   #51
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

WO XI complies with the rules of the S2H and probably all other ocean races that allow IRC maxis to race. Quit with the tall poppy syndrome posts and try discussing things relevant to the forthcoming race.

It should be an interesting race between WO XI & Comanche again and also to see how the mods to WO XI go at speeding her up.

Rambler 88 could be an interesting cat amongst the pigeons. On a couple of races it was very close to Comanche and perhaps in the right conditions it could cause an upset.

I see that Comanche is skipping the SOLAS big boat challenge on Tuesday.

Can Rags pull something out of the hat? Made some good speed last year



I have no idea about any of the potential handicap competitors

Just a shame that on the S2H site they don't have links to pages with more info about the entries.
The Yachts - Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2015
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Old 12-12-2015, 15:38   #52
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Do you just invent justifications for your positions. Serious question.

The fact that Oats runs its engines 100% has everything to do with the fact that its a mono, a canting keel mono to be specific. And thus its a sail boat that MUST motor, not could motor or uses energy for systems to assist, but MUST motor. You would want a **** load of battery to move that keel around.

My fundamental position applies, a boat that MUST run its motor hardly classifies as a sail boat.

,,
I don't understand your logic. As I said top ocean racing monohulls and multihulls run the engine to charge the batteries, not all time but about 2 hours a day.

If a monohull or multihull chose not to have batteries aboard to be lighter they will have to run the engine full time. An odd choice, on my opinion, that can be taken by a multihull or a monohull alike.

I also pointed out to you that the only top ocean racer that I know off that don't need fossil energies to run the systems is a monohull canting keeler.
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Old 12-12-2015, 15:58   #53
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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I don't understand your logic. As I said top ocean racing monohulls and multihulls run the engine to charge the batteries, not all time but about 2 hours a day.

If a monohull or multihull chose not to have batteries aboard to be lighter they will have to run the engine full time. An odd choice, on my opinion, that can be taken by a multihull or a monohull alike.

I also pointed out to you that the only top ocean racer that I know off that don't need fossil energies to run the systems is a monohull canting keeler.
NOT so, fastest boat in Australia doesn't need to run engines.
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Old 12-12-2015, 17:05   #54
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Yes rules can change but the only reason a boat like Wild Oates has to run the engine 100% of the time it is because it has no batteries to store the electric energy, to make it lighter. A racing boat like that can be easily provided with the means to use only the engine some hours a day for charging the batteries.
Horse pucky. No boat that needs to run a 150HP turbocharged diesel 24/7 could replace that with any practical amount of battery storage.
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Old 12-12-2015, 17:08   #55
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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To add to this point, running it's engine allows for the boat to sail faster and point higher so the end result is the engine aids its sailing performace. Starting to sound like a motor sailor...
+1

When you use engine power to improve your sailing characteristics, you are a motor sailor.
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Old 12-12-2015, 17:15   #56
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I think that's a big leap to say 'safety' is the reason. The CYC have not stated a reason in the past 12 months other than it's a 'mono' race for mono's. Which I think the same answer will be given if a group of 'motor boats' wanted to participate.

Unfortunately, with the current number of record breaking entries I can't see Multi's being admitted for a while. But eventually, to remain relevant I had no doubt they will be. But for now, the official reason is because it's traditionally been a race for 'mono's.
Someone in Oz with a cat should get together a couple more and start their own race. Could start say 2hours later on the same course. Would be fun watching some cats pass some mono's.
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Old 12-12-2015, 17:21   #57
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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NOT so, fastest boat in Australia doesn't need to run engines.
The fastest boat in Australia is just an old French trimaran. I am talking about the top of the crop, the new ones that made the last Route du Rhum.

So if the fastest ocean racing multihulls use the engine to charge the batteries, how the old and slower ones do it? How do they recharge batteries when they do many days offshore races?
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Old 13-12-2015, 03:25   #58
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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The fastest boat in Australia is just an old French trimaran.
You don't get the irony in your own statement do you, and thank youf or reinforcing my point. The fastest boat in Australia is an old french tri that doesn't run its engine to race, but boats that are slower do run their engine. HMMMM
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Old 13-12-2015, 03:43   #59
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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You don't get the irony in your own statement do you, and thank youf or reinforcing my point. The fastest boat in Australia is an old french tri that doesn't run its engine to race, but boats that are slower do run their engine. HMMMM
Well, you didn't tell me yet what wonder system they use to produce energy for the systems, unless they do only coastal racing, but that is not what I was talking about, I mean ocean racing, you know, racing across oceans, that type of stuff.

The French are by far the ones that are ahead regarding that holding all important sail records and are the ones that know more not only about big ocean racing trimarans but also about ways of production energy limiting the weight and drag aboard.

I would be very surprised if on a region where there is only old ocean trimarans (and not many) they had a breakthrough regarding that but if so I would be very interested in know about that and I bet the French racers and French designers would be even more interested.

So about what are you talking about?
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Old 13-12-2015, 03:46   #60
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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You don't get the irony in your own statement do you, and thank youf or reinforcing my point. The fastest boat in Australia is an old french tri that doesn't run its engine to race, but boats that are slower do run their engine. HMMMM
I thought the fastest sail boat in Australia is Sailrocket, that's hardly an old French boat?
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