Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2015, 01:39   #31
Registered User
 
Mirage Gecko's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast Hinterland
Boat: Seawind 1200 TEC 3
Posts: 430
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
I understand that a certain ex-V8 Supercar driver is having a catamaran built and intends to leave Sydney Harbour at the same time as the racing yachts and attempt to get to Hobart before them. Not sure when it will be ready, but will be interesting to see how he goes.
Saw KATO flying past quite a bit out on the water up north and thought it would give most of the Hobart entries a hurry up as is but I did here him say he wanted something quicker.
Do you know what it wil be?
Motor running or not I still love watching the big boats power up and any way I'm happy watching all boats sailing or motor sailing.As far as I am concerned the current Sydney Hobart is a mono race and it should stay that way.If multi guys want to race that course well then maybe they should start another race.Is it possible to hanicap monos and Cats in a single event.
Sort of reminds me of what Bathurst used to be about with every day mugs mixing it with semi pros in hotted up production cars to today's fiasco of the V8 Supercars.Every day mugs can still do the STH but can't get a look in at Bathurst.
__________________

__________________
Mirage Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 02:42   #32
Registered User
 
clownfishsydney's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Lightwave 38' Catamaran
Posts: 304
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
cat is not car. you do need real skills to handle this stuff. it can get dangerous going at 40 kn.

I will pray for him.
He has the sailing credentials, much more than most people on this site.
__________________

__________________
Michael and Kelly
Catlypso - Web Site
Lightwave 38' cat
clownfishsydney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 02:46   #33
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
He has the sailing credentials, much more than most people on this site.
And what credentials would those be?
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 03:19   #34
Registered User
 
Tientos's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Malaysia
Boat: Wilf O'Kell 52'
Posts: 112
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

OMG would most of you leave this race alone! You have no idea what you are talking about and the 'pissing' contest prevalent on this forum is trying to make a mockery of this race. Do you realise people DIE doing this race; it is not for the faint hearted nor mockers!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
May all your bars be wooden and well-stocked!
http://yachttientos.blogspot.com.au/
Tientos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 04:46   #35
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,328
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tientos View Post
Another idiot that has NFI of how this race is conducted! Only cruising boats may use engine!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
You may want to check your facts before posting
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 04:50   #36
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,748
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
this particular race has lots of square seas and this would favour monos especially in lighter winds.

would be pride boost for mono-ists, for sure.
Yes, I think it would be very interesting to see fast cruiser racer cats racing against fast monohull cruiser racers and I agree with you that on this passage they will not be particularly advantaged has on a downwind ride like the ARC but this race as a bot of everything, from big seas to downwind and upwind sailing.

I believe performance cruising cats would be less favored on one of the med classic races like the Middle Sea Race where they are allowed but don't show up. Contrary to that big top racing multi hulls started to show up and one of them even won the last edition on real time, not far from the first monohull.

There are many classic races that were once monohull races that are today sailing races with all types of sailing boats allowed.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 05:23   #37
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,748
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Its not about having an engine on board - its about the fact that they HAVE to run the engine full time while racing. The reality with canting keel boats is that they have to run the motor al the time to have hydraulic pressure to move the keel. Should they have an engine issue they will be severely comprised and indeed as was the case in 2012 (I think) one of the leaders withdrew citing itv was unsafe to continue without a working engine. Certainly even if the keel was pumped back to centre their ability to race and go quick and carry full sail is very very compromised.

Its my view that any boat than cannot race if it engine stops is clearly not a sail boat.
I don't know that well the top boats that race on the Hobart but making a generic statement that canting keel monohull racers have to run the engine full time on a race reveals a lot of ignorance as well to think that on long range courses multihulls don't use the engine for energy production.

On long range races with canting keel boats, like the Vendee Globe circumnavigation they take about 100 to 150L for the full circumnavigation and they cannot use it to propel the boat but only for the production of energy for all on board systems. In fact the engine is used as a generator, not like a boat engine.

Regarding transatlantic top races with monohulls and multihulls both types of boats use the engine as a generator for production of energy (about 2/3 hours a day). In fact on the last big professional transat race the only boat that used only electricity and not a thermic engine was a monohull, not a multihull.

Calling motorsailors to monohulls or multihulls that use the engine as a generateur to produce energy for electrical and hydraulic systems on long races it is just ridiculous.

On the last non stop circumnavigation there was a boat (a monohull canting keeler) that used only renewable energies, not using a thermic engine as a generator and in fact it is possible at the state of the art, even if the boats become a bit heavier. There are talks about making that a demand for future circumnavigation races. I am all in favor of that.

This one, a canting keeler, used only renewable energies for all electric and hydraulic systems on the last Vendee Globe:

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 05:28   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,091
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

east coast of au has lots of wind, mainly southerly and regularly gusting in 40ies. So it likely more of an upwind track.

i still do not get it that majority of boats outside bays are actually cats. Monos keep safely in harbour and try to avoid collisions every 5-6 seconds. How can this be more fun ?! Only bot sailing windward in 50 kn wind out on open in 1-2 m waves the other day was 10m Seawind, HUH.

this changed now, just before race as I believe practising is going on, more large monos out there.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 05:28   #39
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,024
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

I want to emphasize again the be nice rule, abbreviating cuss words does not change what they are or what was said.
There is nothing to be gained by becoming emotional, you do not sway others to your opinion that way, in fact more likely just the opposite.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 10:07   #40
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,748
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post



Very interesting. The two bows are for real but only one will be put on the boat

They took about two meters on length on the stern, to provide the boat with a wider stern with the beam more pulled aft, as all modern designs (to increase stability and downwind power) and put back the two meters on the bow section, increasing it. That's why one of the boat bow sections is bigger on the photo.

They cannot make the boat bigger (it has already the maximum size) and that's why the chose this option that is a lot cheaper than a new boat.

It looks good



We can see that the stern is a lot bigger now, with a modern section.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 14:03   #41
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't know that well the top boats that race on the Hobart but making a generic statement that canting keel monohull racers have to run the engine full time on a race reveals a lot of ignorance as well to think that on long range courses multihulls don't use the engine for energy production.

On long range races with canting keel boats, like the Vendee Globe circumnavigation they take about 100 to 150L for the full circumnavigation and they cannot use it to propel the boat but only for the production of energy for all on board systems. In fact the engine is used as a generator, not like a boat engine.

Regarding transatlantic top races with monohulls and multihulls both types of boats use the engine as a generator for production of energy (about 2/3 hours a day). In fact on the last big professional transat race the only boat that used only electricity and not a thermic engine was a monohull, not a multihull.

Calling motorsailors to monohulls or multihulls that use the engine as a generateur to produce energy for electrical and hydraulic systems on long races it is just ridiculous.

On the last non stop circumnavigation there was a boat (a monohull canting keeler) that used only renewable energies, not using a thermic engine as a generator and in fact it is possible at the state of the art, even if the boats become a bit heavier. There are talks about making that a demand for future circumnavigation races. I am all in favor of that.

This one, a canting keeler, used only renewable energies for all electric and hydraulic systems on the last Vendee Globe:

I think I agree with you Polux, if your saying that using an engine for purposes other than propulsion does not alter whether a boat is a 'sail boat' or a 'motor boat'.

For me, I'd be quite happy if they let multi' race. But, they need to draw the line as I wouldn't be very impressed to see the 'sail' boats being used in the Americas cup participating at all.

I'm not that impressed at these big maxi's racing in it. Nothing to do with them having to run an engine for electrics or hydrolics as I personally don't think that's much different to a cruising boat having an engine to run a water maker etc. what I don't like about the maxi's is that the media and public treat the race as 'over' once all the maxi's are in. It's taken away the glory of the race from those boats that traditionslly were 'cruisers' and turned one of the most famous and challenging races in the world into an exceptionally rich elite professional race that's over in two days.

There seem to be few famous races left that are for 'normal' sail boats.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 14:28   #42
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,080
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
I understand that a certain ex-V8 Supercar driver is having a catamaran built and intends to leave Sydney Harbour at the same time as the racing yachts and attempt to get to Hobart before them. Not sure when it will be ready, but will be interesting to see how he goes.
If you are referring to Tony L then I don't think thats accurate. I haven't heard him ever mention that? Not that I am his best mate or anything.

Its been done - in part at least, many many years ago a large crowther (Room with aview? maybe or Simply the best? maybe) shadowed the fleet for a while sailing circles around the leading boat .

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
cat is not car. you do need real skills to handle this stuff. it can get dangerous going at 40 kn.I will pray for him.
Tony is a seriously seriously seriously good sailor with acres of experience on a number of large cruising cats, Grainger 16 metre, Schionning GForce 18 metre among others. Also has a Raider Race Boat that he has done more than a couple of ocean racing miles on. I suspect he has more cred than most, certainly he has more than me. Oh and he runs the largest boatyard in the Southern Hemisphere so his day job is a bit involved with boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
Saw KATO flying past quite a bit out on the water up north and thought it would give most of the Hobart entries a hurry up as is but I did here him say he wanted something quicker.
KATO is on the market and I did hear that a Extreme 40 is on the way to Coomera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
And what credentials would those be?
See above. He is a seriously good sailor as well as a seriously good driver and one of the most decent gentlemen I have met.
__________________
Factor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 17:31   #43
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,748
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
....
For me, I'd be quite happy if they let multi' race. But, they need to draw the line as I wouldn't be very impressed to see the 'sail' boats being used in the Americas cup participating at all.

... It's taken away the glory of the race from those boats that traditionslly were 'cruisers' and turned one of the most famous and challenging races in the world into an exceptionally rich elite professional race that's over in two days.

There seem to be few famous races left that are for 'normal' sail boats.
No, you have no risk at all of seeing the boats used on the America's cup racing here because they would be impossible to drive on the Hobart conditions probably breaking or capsizing. They are not offshore boats and are designed to be sailing on protected waters.

But in a very near future you will see foiling oceanic trimarans and foiling oceanic monohulls racing the Hobart. There is where the future lies in what regards performance sailing and racing.

Regarding "normal" boats, some are quite misleading because they look like normal and they are very expensive all carbon boats.

Regarding what you call "normal" I prefer to call them fast production boats, the ones we can buy from a shipyard for less than a fortune and that can have a dual use, for racing and for cruising. From those I prefer the ones that are still in production and you have several on the Sydney Hobart:

Two First 45, a First 50, a JPK 10.80, a Salona 44, three First 40, an A40, a X-41, a Hanse 495, a A13, and a Moody DS 54.

Among the production boats not in production anymore you have:

Two Sydney 38, two First 44.7, a First 40.7, a X-43, a Sydney 46, a Sydney 47, a Sun Odyssey 42i.

I always look at their performance with great interest and I remember past great performances of a First 40 that won an edition (on compensated) and the one of a First 45 that won his division.

But off course I am also delighted with the big fight for the first overall, among very different types of sailboats.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 18:07   #44
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 749
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Very interesting. The two bows are for real but only one will be put on the boat

They took about two meters on length on the stern, to provide the boat with a wider stern with the beam more pulled aft, as all modern designs (to increase stability and downwind power) and put back the two meters on the bow section, increasing it. That's why one of the boat bow sections is bigger on the photo.

They cannot make the boat bigger (it has already the maximum size) and that's why the chose this option that is a lot cheaper than a new boat.

It looks good



We can see that the stern is a lot bigger now, with a modern section.
Pollox I am curious, how can you determine the length of the bows from the photo? One is obvious as it is standing alone at 90 degrees to the hull, however the other ends at the transom, there is no noticeable join that would identify the actual length of the new section.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.

Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
Uncle Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2015, 18:20   #45
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,748
Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post

Pollox I am curious, how can you determine the length of the bows from the photo? One is obvious as it is standing alone at 90 degrees to the hull, however the other ends at the transom, there is no noticeable join that would identify the actual length of the new section.
That is easy because I know that they had cut two meters on the transom length and added two meters at the bow section.

The meters they cut at the transom, to make it more large and effective, are the same 2 meters that they added to the bow, since the boat had already the maximum length for the race and could not be made bigger.
__________________

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sydney

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Hobart to Sydney in late May 2015 Amnesia II Crew Archives 12 17-04-2015 15:01
Crew Available: Sydney to Hobart/Melbourne to Hobart. stoffer123 Crew Archives 0 25-11-2012 21:52
And the Sydney Hobart winner is----- Factor General Sailing Forum 6 04-01-2009 15:01
Sydney to Hobart 07 Factor General Sailing Forum 60 02-01-2008 04:38
The Rules for a cruisers Sydney to Hobart ! cooper General Sailing Forum 2 28-12-2007 04:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.