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Old 27-12-2015, 17:40   #331
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Most of these yachts are more regularly sailed around the cans on a Saturday afternoon. The Sydney to Hobart is probably the only offshore race many of them compete in. Ok a lot probably also compete in shorter/less trying offshore races such as Sydney to Gladstone. But the Sydney to Hobart will certainly sort out the condition of the competing yachts in most years. My last racing of any sort was on a Sydney 40 which also competed in the Sydney to Hobart and an average afternoons sail usually ended in several hours work the following week for the sailmaker and rigger, depending on the conditions, all which were mild compared to the average Sydney Hobart conditions. So if a few days out of Sydney, which equates to around 30 Saturday afternoon sails, in worse conditions and pushing hard, if it's going to break, it hopefully will have broken before Eden, which is the perfect place to give up the ghost. Why continue across bass straight with no chance of being competitive? So you can say you did it? That's not really how sailboat racing works. You sail hard and fast, and when stuff breaks, if you can't fix it, you pull the pin and return to the marina and fix it 💰and prepare for the next race. Some of the less professional yachts will sail on to Hobart for the personal satisfaction of finishing what they started, some of the more prudent skippers will pull out at Eden if the forecast is thought to be too dangerous or expensive, even if the yacht hasn't suffered damage, and some will return ASAP to Sydney to fix stuff and prepare for the next race.
What are the current conditions in bass straight anyway? Is it southerly? I tried to log in to watch the start but crappy Martinique Internet
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Old 27-12-2015, 17:46   #332
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Jim, I think it is more fair to consider these maxis as professional campaigners.... where after they are out of contention due to failures, Logistics takes over to identify and manage the setback and solve the problem as quickly and as cost effectively as possible.

Don't think it is so much ego, but business management by the admin in charge.
Yes, the difference between professional and amateurs. For an amateur to finish a S2H means something, for a professional crew that is there to fight to be the first boat across the finish line, finishing the race on a crippled boat, far away from their potential performance, means nothing and it is just a waste that can cause further damage to the mainsail that cost something like half a million.

That type of behaviour is not exclusive to sail race, you can find it in any kind of sport that deals with expensive machines. A top professional rally pilot that is fighting for victory will only continue racing with a damaged car if he remains with possibilities to finish among the first and get some points for the championship. If not he would chose to retire for not damaging more the car.

An amateur on that rally, even with a damaged car will try to finish the rally because finishing means something to him (and nothing for the top pilot that has done and probably won many rallies).

The only reason Comanche and Rambler continued with damaged boats is because that damage does not prevent them to fight for line honors, or a top place. If the damage was really crippling and they would only had a possibility of finishing in 6th or 7th place they would have given up preventing more damage to the boat.
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Old 27-12-2015, 18:22   #333
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

It seems that in what regards line honors the race is decided regarding the first four (if nothing odd happens): Comanche, Rambler, Ragamuffin and Maserati.

Regarding the winner of the race things seem more uncertain and the results vary widely with short time difference I suppose because not all boats are actualized at the same time and because the system has been working badly for a long time.

Now they give the 1st place to an old S&S 34 that sails among the last (68th place) while a modern cruiser/racer of about the same size sails in 25th place.

That may be all right on club racing, where one races with the boat one has but regarding top racing it is just to take advantage of a favorable rating of an oldie to win a race. The objective of racing is going fast. Who would want to sail in a race an outdated slow boat with the only finality of winning, even if sailing very slowly? For my point of view is winning on the paper only.

I bet that the sails they have on the boat are more valuable than the boat itself.
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Old 27-12-2015, 20:03   #334
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Ragamuffin is dropping back because they sheared off the port daggerboard,they are using the starboard one upside down when changing tacks !! Looks like Masserrati has dropped in a 'wind hole' and is falling back.
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Old 27-12-2015, 21:28   #335
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Well said Jim. What I was trying to say, far more eruditely expressed. Imagine the alternative, getting in a day after the leaders or two, standing on the dock saying "well we made it, sometimes its not about winning and losing its just about making the journey" or something similar.

Is that the same media who said they had retired? Cause if they were correct on the retirement thing then Comanche is out under the RRS - you cannot retire and then say - no just kidding - back in. And oats should be ashamed for not hardening the F up and battling along under adversity. When I say Oats I mean Richards, don't know the guy at all but what little I have seen suggests he wouldn't be on my team, as I said before, no shortage of talent, but in life for me anyway there is more to it than just skill.

What Media? What are you referring too?
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Old 27-12-2015, 21:34   #336
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Well, I dunno about shame, but consider what a cruiser would do if their main blew out in that position...

Were it me, I'd clean up the mess of tattered thousand dollar bills and continue on under headsails alone and finish up the voyage.

I suspect that the egos of these folks say that if they are not in first place, they don't want to be there at all. That's obviously conjecture, and t he disappointment of a big failure like that would be severe...

I really like the response of Comanche, and now Rambler, to similar adversity: keep on racing to the best of their ability!

Jim
The thing is, this 'race' is not a 'cruise'.. Comanche knew if they could get the rudder fixed enough to keep going they have a damn good shot at winning line honours.. As they do.

Mark Richards was on Sunrise being interviewed this morning and in response to returning he said if it was just him and a few friends it would be worth continuing on, but not when he's got to risk the lives of crew and a multi million dollar vessel.

If he was on the other side of the Tasman, he might have considered another option. But why risk the crew and boat to head into quite rough seas, just to be at the finish line party? That's not good seamanship.
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Old 27-12-2015, 21:37   #337
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Re dropping out of the race when damaged:

I keep forgetting that this is a business, not a sport. Makes sense as a biz decision.

And there is a rumour running around Eden that WO had engine problems too... wonder if that is true, and if so, how did that influence the decision?

Jim
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Old 27-12-2015, 21:39   #338
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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It seems that in what regards line honors the race is decided regarding the first four (if nothing odd happens): Comanche, Rambler, Ragamuffin and Maserati.

Regarding the winner of the race things seem more uncertain and the results vary widely with short time difference I suppose because not all boats are actualized at the same time and because the system has been working badly for a long time.

Now they give the 1st place to an old S&S 34 that sails among the last (68th place) while a modern cruiser/racer of about the same size sails in 25th place.

That may be all right on club racing, where one races with the boat one has but regarding top racing it is just to take advantage of a favorable rating of an oldie to win a race. The objective of racing is going fast. Who would want to sail in a race an outdated slow boat with the only finality of winning, even if sailing very slowly? For my point of view is winning on the paper only.

I bet that the sails they have on the boat are more valuable than the boat itself.
This is where I completely disagree with you Polux. Which surprises me that you would suggest this because I thought you too were keen on the traditionalism of the S2H.

I the race was determined only on line honors, then there is really no point in any vessels other than the super maxi's being in the race. It just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 27-12-2015, 21:46   #339
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Only one boat in the cruising division. We owe it to ourselves to do something about this. I'm tracking down the owner of Enchantress when he gets back to the club to see how hard it is to enter this race.

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If you go to the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia web site you will find the entry conditions which include what you need to qualify to enter, crew and vessel requirements. The only thing missing is the cost from memory.
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Old 27-12-2015, 22:37   #340
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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If you go to the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia web site you will find the entry conditions which include what you need to qualify to enter, crew and vessel requirements. The only thing missing is the cost from memory.

Yeah, funny that hey? One of those, "if you have to ask how much it costs..." questions I suspect.


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Old 27-12-2015, 22:37   #341
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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What Media? What are you referring too?
I dunno what media Factor was referring to but I heard on tellie and read somewhere on a website in the evening of the 26th that both WOXI and Comanche had retired. Clearly someone got it wrong!
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Old 27-12-2015, 22:38   #342
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Enchantress leading the handicap race! Go Squadron go!


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Old 27-12-2015, 22:53   #343
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Mark Richards was on Sunrise being interviewed this morning and in response to returning he said if it was just him and a few friends it would be worth continuing on, but not when he's got to risk the lives of crew and a multi million dollar vessel......
How does that work???

Pushing hard enough to blow out mainsail into strong southerly when you are in the lead is OK but carrying some sort of jury repair and pushing on at a slower speed is risking the crew and vessel when behind the pack - give me a break! Maybe some truth in those engine failure rumors - now that could be risking the vessel if the cantling keel can't be controlled.

Unlikely to see Mark getting on TV and saying we pulled out because our engine stopped.

As to continuing under jury rig of any type, it is pretty simple, you got to be in the race to have a chance to win and no skipper knows what might happen to the opposition.

Right now on the available evidence, I suggest the WOXI altitude would have lost us the America's Cup way back when!
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Old 27-12-2015, 22:58   #344
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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If you go to the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia web site you will find the entry conditions which include what you need to qualify to enter, crew and vessel requirements. The only thing missing is the cost from memory.

Hmmm.... I found the equipment and boat audit list. A few items there that would cause me problems. Aside from the need to spend around $10k on additional equipment I think our portholes may fail (they open inwards and two or four are forward of the maximum beam, just don't know their total opening area). Also we only have two cockpit drains and according to the vintage of the boat we should have four....

Still, might as well keep the dream alive for 2020 when the boat turns 40, or 2022 when she has been afloat for 40 years.

Matt


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Old 28-12-2015, 00:15   #345
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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More silly super maxi questions!

Would it be usual or unusual to have more than one mainsail aboard?

Can these supersized sails be hoisted in say 25 kts?

One Maxi I know had a racing main and an older delivery main. Ditto with couple of headsails.


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