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Old 26-12-2015, 04:36   #271
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The 'state' has had nothing to do with the changes to this race, nor does the 'state' make regulations for it. It's an entirely non government recreational race.
Not quite, the event requires an aquatic event permit issued by NSW Waterways, conditions of the issue of the permit revolve around, amongst other things, the RRS category of the race and the implementation of the associated special regs, it also requires a consultation process and a significant operational plan to be developed and approved. Further the event references the NSW Maritime Laws, including but not limited to, (from the NSW waterways policy documents)
Quote:
Marine Safety Act 1998, the Marine Safety (General) Regulation 2009 and the Marine Pollution Act 2012.
to use a very arcane example, the yachts used to use rubber bands and wool on spinnakers, to do so now is a breach of the Marine Pollution Act and is forbidden.
Quote:
and 'no' it's not considered a commercial operation.
Given they (the CYCA have registered a trademark, it suggests, indeed demands at law that it is a commercial operation-from the notice of race)
Quote:
Sydney Hobart Yacht Race®
Sydney Hobart Yacht Race is a registered trademark owned by the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia and the use of the trademark is absolutely restricted and limited to use by or with the consent of the Organising Authority.
On the issue of toughest race, this is a quote direct from the CYCA Notice of race:
Quote:
The Rolex Sydney Hobart is renowned as one of the most significant and toughest ocean races in the world
Skipper of the worlds fastest motor sailor, Wild Oats, was reported in an interview with the Australian newspaper that the Hobart was the "top of the list for ocean racing" DD McNicol a reporter in the Australian has made similar comment in his articles.

Speaking of Mr Richards, he is no doubt twice the sailor I will ever be, in fact that would do him a disservice, lets say many many times the sailor, his behaviour at the start of the race in the manner he communicated with his crew however was atrocious, he would have got a snotting from me and many of the folk I crew with.
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:45   #272
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Rolex might consider the race to be a commerical undertaking!
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:48   #273
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Look like WOXI is heading back to Sydney....Heading 334 degrees.
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:50   #274
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Yup, I see that too. She's heading back. Ohh, that's not good. Not good for Wild Oats that is, but opportunity for some other boat.

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Old 26-12-2015, 04:52   #275
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Perhaps their engine stopped?

Seriously, they are heading north at 17 knots, so doesn't appear to be a significant gear issue?
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:55   #276
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Rolex might consider the race to be a commerical undertaking!
They would see it as a commercial 'business', not as commercial as in a marine sense. Hence why vessels do not need to be under survey to compete or those in charge of them to have suitable marine qualifications.
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:57   #277
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Wild Oats out of the race, torn mainsail.

https://twitter.com/amandalulham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:58   #278
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

The "oldie but goodie"
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mainsail damage
is the stated reason for the retirement, they are going bloody quick with a broken main.
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Old 26-12-2015, 04:58   #279
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Torn mainsail. Hhmm I wonder jut how strong the gusts were?
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:07   #280
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

40 knots according to news reports quoting from the crew, so I guess we now know what the limit for these boats is, - 40 knots and they have to pack up and go home.

On another matter the tracker has Comanche doing three knots northward?

Reports are a broken rudder, seems like the conditions are starting to tell. Seriously I make no criticism of the boats for breaking, these things are F1 level tech, if they didn't occasionally break you would conclude they were built to heavy. As much as I detest the idea of sail boat races having boats constantly used engines, they are elite level stuff and breakages should be expected.
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:14   #281
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Not quite, the event requires an aquatic event permit issued by NSW Waterways, conditions of the issue of the permit revolve around, amongst other things, the RRS category of the race and the implementation of the associated special regs, it also requires a consultation process and a significant operational plan to be developed and approved.

This would be a lot easier if you stick with the context of discussion without jumping around. YES, you are correct, the 'State' has to authorise the race and to do that they want to see among other things a number of plans and sailing procedures before they authorise the race. And YES, it require significant consultation process, after all there are police, BOM, marine, ambulance services all to organise. So, YES, you are correct, the state is very much involved. But that is not what I was responding to. I was responding to whether the 'state', or the 'government' has been involved in dictating the new race rules and safety guidelines and all that stuff we have been talking about and to that the answer is 'NO'. The state has not been involved.

Further the event references the NSW Maritime Laws, including but not limited to, (from the NSW waterways policy documents) to use a very arcane example, the yachts used to use rubber bands and wool on spinnakers, to do so now is a breach of the Marine Pollution Act and is forbidden.

YES, the race references the NSW Maritime Laws, after all, it is through these laws that race participants are expected to obey the Colregs. It is after all a race in State waters and participants are expected to obey the law. Your right again.

Given they (the CYCA have registered a trademark, it suggests, indeed demands at law that it is a commercial operation-from the notice of race)
On the issue of toughest race, this is a quote direct from the CYCA Notice of race:

NO! registering a trademark does not require it to be a commercial operation in a marine sense. NO. When talking about 'commercial' operations with vessels, we are not talking about just commerce but using the vessels to operate a business. And that is not the case. No vessel requires to be under survey in the Sydney to Hobart, nor do the skippers require to have marine qualifications other than what is now required to enter the race for safety. .

Skipper of the worlds fastest motor sailor, Wild Oats, was reported in an interview with the Australian newspaper that the Hobart was the "top of the list for ocean racing" DD McNicol a reporter in the Australian has made similar comment in his articles.

It is on top of the list for ocean racing! The only people who dare dispute this are armchair sailors from CF. But that's a far cry from your claim of hearing people saying it's 'the hardest race in the world dribble'. My own comment was that it's 'One of the most difficult races in the world' and I stand by that comment.

Speaking of Mr Richards, he is no doubt twice the sailor I will ever be, in fact that would do him a disservice, lets say many many times the sailor, his behaviour at the start of the race in the manner he communicated with his crew however was atrocious, he would have got a snotting from me and many of the folk I crew with.

I know what you mean, I agree with you
Factor, I'm really not understanding why you feel you need to put this race down. The race is seen as one of the four top Blue Water classics on the planet and for medium races it's the hardest and most difficult of them.
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:25   #282
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

On the Rolex ledger board it has the following: But from what I can see Comanche hasn't retired????

Race Organiser Notes

  • Comanche - Retired - Rudder & daggerboard damage
  • Wild Oats XI - Retired- Mainsail damage
  • CEX Dolce - Retired - Broken mast
  • Ark323 - Retired
  • Cougar II - Retired
  • Dare Devil - Retired-Rudder damage - returning to Sydney
  • Lupa of London - Retired
  • M3 - Retired - Broken Forestay
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:33   #283
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Yes but I believe you are not seeing what I mean: If you join an amateur race with slow boats with a top race with professional crews and fast and spectacular big boats it is obvious that the public and press interest is going to focus on the spectacular boats.

If you have a separated amateur race with a much bigger number of boats the press will focus not on the boats themselves but on the human side of the race, an affordable race to all but that nonetheless is a tough one.

It will focus on the many problems amateur sailors will have doing that race, it will focus on smaller and older boats doing the race. It will focus on families doing the race, old people doing the race and of course also on particularly good performances on the race.

That will also contribute to increase the number of boats participating and regarding public interest, numbers are part of the interest. Interesting human stories too, particularly in what regards to overcome big difficulties and a S2H for amateur racers on small cruising boats is not an easy thing to do, at least it was not in many editions.
i think you are giving the press way to much credit there.
there's a huge number of races taking place all over the world and you only hear from those by publications from organisers or if something terrible happens.
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:41   #284
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
On the Rolex ledger board it has the following: But from what I can see Comanche hasn't retired????

Race Organiser Notes

  • Comanche - Retired - Rudder & daggerboard damage
  • Wild Oats XI - Retired- Mainsail damage
  • CEX Dolce - Retired - Broken mast
  • Ark323 - Retired
  • Cougar II - Retired
  • Dare Devil - Retired-Rudder damage - returning to Sydney
  • Lupa of London - Retired
  • M3 - Retired - Broken Forestay
Looks like they have. They're doing 6 knot on a heading of 325 at the moment.
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Old 26-12-2015, 05:51   #285
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
i think you are giving the press way to much credit there.
there's a huge number of races taking place all over the world and you only hear from those by publications from organisers or if something terrible happens.
There are a huge number of races going on and just some few that got national coverage and even fewer that gets world media coverage and this is one of them and that is the point.

For the S2H to continue to be a world's major race it has to evolve to a professional level and that means also the coverage of the race by the organization that is a lousy one.
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