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Old 15-12-2015, 16:53   #151
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
But the tri's, and the smaller boats in the S-H don't use electric winches either. The boats are human/wind powered.


Using electric winches would put them in the "Powered sailing systems" category. They aren't.


Seriously? You don't see the difference between communications systems (again which are probably mandatory requirements) and sailing systems?
There are no Tri's in the S2H! That's what we were origionally debating.

And I'm pretty sure (not certain) that the smaller boats can use 'electric' winches. I don't think there are any rules prohibiting this in the S2H. Happy to be corrected if you can cite a S2H rule on this.
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Old 15-12-2015, 21:23   #152
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I am confused. .

Apparently.


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I have already said that I find unfair the advantage Wild Oats have for using permanently its engine not because that will gave it any advantage in what regards sailing, towards other boats that use mechanical or hydraulic systems, but because dispensing a battery bank will allow it to be lighter.
.
So being lighter isn't an advantage in sailing?

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You say that the tri's in the SH don't use electric winches. Tri's are trimarans? I thought that multihulls were not allowed on the S-H.
I was speaking about 2 groups of boats. The tri's that you keep claiming use powered sailing systems: They don't.

And the smaller boats in the S 2 H. They don't either. Probably should have made that more clear.

And of course WOXI is chasing a record. every year they try to set a new race record. But no matter how fast it goes, it can't set a new passage sailing record. Why do you think that is?
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Old 15-12-2015, 22:52   #153
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You know, the race committee already limits the number of entrants. Maybe that's why they don't have two divisions, one for monohulls and one for multihulls. No room in Con Dock for all those multis--they'd have to (gasp!) anchor out! They'd have to have room for at least 4 divisions, maxis and others; super fast and less fast multis.

Think that might float?

Ann
Just noticed your latest signature.
Leaving late or early on the 26th?
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Old 15-12-2015, 23:58   #154
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

The S2H does specifically remove RRS 52, which is the rule talking about human powered sailing adjustment and appendages. This is much different from Newport-Bermuda which does normally have a special class, but not eligible line honors.

It is strange that cruising class allows you to engage the prop, how long before there are thousand horsepower cruising yachts out there looking for their trophies?

WO is not alone. Comanche (and I am sure much of the Maxi fleet), require engines as well. Comanche stopped their engine powered mode in the Transat for one day because conditions were favorable for the 24 hour non-powered distance run. Rest of the time they were just like WO. I am sure Comanche will be in full engine powered mode for this race as well.

Whether it is engines or batteries, the point is mute, it is stored energy, not human powered. I think it is shame that S2H has gone this route.


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Old 16-12-2015, 00:51   #155
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

I once crewed on a Hobart winner the yacht Buccaneer in the seventies I was not in the race but she was the maxi of the day
a I do not know if you have experienced the power of even a small maxi it is phenomenal in my day there were just side lever winches then we went to top winches then to self tailing winches then to grinders then to powered winches it is all a progression from the days when you used multi purchase block and tackle
I do not know if you have been on a yacht in a full gale with the sheets banging around the Spinnaker pole loose or even a block and tackle flayling around
it is very very scary so the way sailing yachts have gone now they are much safer than they used to be yes they are more powerful but they are safer
I have sailed since I was 12 there was a a saying then that unless you have ever sailed the dinghies you will will never be a top ocean helmsman
I love the yacht Comanche
I remember the start last time and the skipper of Wild Oats saying wow look at that thing go it made my hair stand on end watching her
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Old 16-12-2015, 04:19   #156
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

Thought you might be interested in this picture. The top one is 2014 and the bottom one taken recently after the additions.
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Old 16-12-2015, 04:38   #157
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I'd like to see the race getting back to basics.

No worries mate. I am planning to pull the davits, Bimini, dodger, solar panels, wind generator, radar and deckhouse off the swannie one day and enter her in the race as the original Swanson entries used to do back in the 60s. I'll be looking for crew. Of course one Swanson 42 did sink in the 1998 race but I'm not going to let that worry me.

But you couldn't get much more back to basics than that hey. What say you?


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Old 16-12-2015, 04:56   #158
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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No worries mate. I am planning to pull the davits, Bimini, dodger, solar panels, wind generator, radar and deckhouse off the swannie one day and enter her in the race as the original Swanson entries used to do back in the 60s. I'll be looking for crew. Of course one Swanson 42 did sink in the 1998 race but I'm not going to let that worry me.

But you couldn't get much more back to basics than that hey. What say you?


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I'd say either your on the woopy weed or your on the top shelf again
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Old 16-12-2015, 05:07   #159
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You know, the race committee already limits the number of entrants. Maybe that's why they don't have two divisions, one for monohulls and one for multihulls. No room in Con Dock for all those multis--they'd have to (gasp!) anchor out! They'd have to have room for at least 4 divisions, maxis and others; super fast and less fast multis.

Think that might float?

Ann
I am not sure I agree with you regarding lack of space. If there was a will surely there would be a solution for that.

They created this year a cruising division that makes the Sydney Hobart like if it was a Rally, using the engine at will for propulsion. This goes in the sense of making this a regional and smaller race and not a top race.

What should be made, if this race is to be maintained as a top world sail race, is to give preference to truly racing machines (monohulls or multihulls), if necessary by invitation, and to professional racers and to top amateur racers.

I am not excluding at all amateurs, old boats or even cruiser-racers only saying that if there is a problem with the number of boats the solution is not to exclude racing multihulls but to sub divide the race in two different races, one after the other, one aimed for professionals, top amateurs and top boats, other aimed for amateurs and Corinthian racing/rally for the ones that want to have fun making the Sydney Hobart.

Note that professional, top amateur racers and top boats has nothing to do with the size of the boat but with the skill of the crew and the speed of the boat.
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Old 16-12-2015, 05:11   #160
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Thought you might be interested in this picture. The top one is 2014 and the bottom one taken recently after the additions.

More beautiful the boat now (not that it was not beautiful already)

You can notice the broader transom, the finer entries, that the size of the main was maintained (coming the boom more aft now) and that the forward sails can be bigger now, specially the gennakers and code sails.
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Old 16-12-2015, 05:22   #161
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
No worries mate. I am planning to pull the davits, Bimini, dodger, solar panels, wind generator, radar and deckhouse off the swannie one day and enter her in the race as the original Swanson entries used to do back in the 60s. I'll be looking for crew. Of course one Swanson 42 did sink in the 1998 race but I'm not going to let that worry me.

But you couldn't get much more back to basics than that hey. What say you?
..
Thanks for the laugh

But as you know some take that seriously and there is a circumnavigation race planned for racing like on the old days. I am very curious to see if that is really going to happen and about what is going to happen to the boats (I hope nobody dies).
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Old 16-12-2015, 05:38   #162
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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The S2H does specifically remove RRS 52, which is the rule talking about human powered sailing adjustment and appendages. This is much different from Newport-Bermuda which does normally have a special class, but not eligible line honors.

It is strange that cruising class allows you to engage the prop, how long before there are thousand horsepower cruising yachts out there looking for their trophies?

WO is not alone. Comanche (and I am sure much of the Maxi fleet), require engines as well. Comanche stopped their engine powered mode in the Transat for one day because conditions were favorable for the 24 hour non-powered distance run. Rest of the time they were just like WO. I am sure Comanche will be in full engine powered mode for this race as well.

Whether it is engines or batteries, the point is mute, it is stored energy, not human powered. I think it is shame that S2H has gone this route.
.

No, that is not the same thing at all. Comanche uses not powered winches and he races under rule RRS 52. Like all boats he needs to use the engine to recharge batteries for other systems but he does not need to run its engine many hours a day.

The reason Comanche does not use powered winches has to do with being an Oceanic boat, doing Ocean races and crossing Oceans to race. Only for running the winches, if they were powered on a Transat they would need 1500L of diesel and much more for a Pacific crossing.

That would not only be an handicap in what regards weight but would make impossible for the boat to attempt a monohull non stop circumnavigation.
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Old 16-12-2015, 05:52   #163
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Can you cite the comment about Australia bring the most litigious? I'm shocked by this?
I dont have a link but the state of NSW is known to be the most litigious place on earth. (according to the mainstream media)

This claim is typically based on the numerous infrastructure and public private partnership failures. SA, my home state, is similar.

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Old 16-12-2015, 05:53   #164
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
..
I was speaking about 2 groups of boats. The tri's that you keep claiming use powered sailing systems: They don't.
..
The discussion was not about using powered sailing systems but about the need of using the engine. It was for the need of using the engine that some called wild Oates a motorsailer.

I only said that modern ocean racing trimarans need also to use the engine several hours a day for charging the batteries.

If someone considers that a sailboat that has the need to use an engine while racing, for whatever the reason, is a motorsailor, then ocean trimarans when using the engine are also motorsailors.

The definition that it is used on S-H race is that a sailboat is a boat that only uses sails as means of propulsion and that seems to me a right definition.
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Old 16-12-2015, 06:07   #165
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Re: Sydney To Hobart 2015-2016

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
There are no Tri's in the S2H! That's what we were origionally debating.

And I'm pretty sure (not certain) that the smaller boats can use 'electric' winches. I don't think there are any rules prohibiting this in the S2H. Happy to be corrected if you can cite a S2H rule on this.
Yes, all boats can use powered sail systems but only the cruising division can use engine for propulsion.

What do you think about the cruising division on the S-H?

To me it seems they are turning the S-H in a Rally, like the ARC, that has a racing division (no use of engine for propulsion) and a cruising division, similar to the one on the ARC. The main difference seems that on the ARC they allow multihulls.

There is also another odd point on the rules: Whatever the size or type of boat you need a crew of 6!!!! unless it is on the cruising division and then you only need 4.

On most top races there are now a special class for duo handed boats and one of the last editions of the Fastnet was won precisely by a duo sailed boat.

Why do you think they exclude the class and demand 6 as minimum to sail a sailboat? at the same time that they allow powered sailing systems that will make possible to sail effectively boats, even big boats, with smaller crews?
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