Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-05-2015, 17:07   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonifay, FL & Huntingdon, PA
Boat: Islander I-37, MS, Tradewind 32
Posts: 52
Images: 2
Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Hello All,

I've thought about some of the Worst Things that could happen at sea. This Survival Scenario is based on being over a thousand miles away from known help i.e. the USCG or the like.

Scenario, your Crippled and over a 1000 miles from known help.

1. Loss of Rudder

a. Knocked completely off, gone.

b. Loss of Rudder by steering linkage but can be used with emergency tiller.

2. Loss of Main Sail.

a. Ripped to Hell and (nearly) not repairable at sea.

b. Ripped & carrying a extra sails but winds are high and can't deploy it now.

3. Engine Dead

a. Engine quit and will not start, checked everything

b. Engine gets hot and have to shut it off after 15 minutes.

4. Low on Fresh Drinking Water, 25 Galion's Remaining for 2 People.

a. You have a 115 volt water maker but your engine is not running. You were running your engine 2 hours a day to charge your battery's & operate 115 volt water maker.

b. You have a tarp to catch rainwater but it has not rained in a weeks time;
So, you're at mercy of mother nature to catch rainwater.

*** I asking for your viewpoint / knowledge of the added questions (below) because I do not know, only from what I've read in books

Is rainwater (collected at sea) drinkable upon collection ? I have read about people surviving for months at time at sea by catching rainwater.

However, I have never tried to catch rainwater at sea to determine how easy or difficult it is to collect. I have seen how dirty water is at altitude when flying thru it in a aircraft. Is or can rainwater be as dirty as I've seen it at altitude ?

Has anyone collected rainwater at sea and drank it to hone their survivor skills ?

Note:

I could not create all the type of situations that one could/ or may encounter at sea. I tried to list the ones that we're familiar with.

I'd like to hear about the major problems you've encountered at sea and how you solved your problem(s) and survived.

Closing, I've attended military survival schools & have survivor type books. I'm interested in hearing about ones actual experiences over text book explanations.

One last thing as Detective Colombo would say.

If you were setting the forward & aft. center of gravity (CG) by loading the sailboat internally; would you set it with a -- Aft CG to take rough seas better in a heavy storm ? If so, what amount in Inches or Percentage would you want the Bow to be up in relationship to a dead neutral waterline. You do not see this type of information in sailing books.


Avery
__________________

__________________
HighFly_27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 01:39   #2
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Redundancy for me..
Twin rudders with a tiller and a windvane.
Ketch rig, one sail down, three or four to carry on.
Solar and wind power at least some to run minimum like tricolor, VHF and GPS.
And where have you been flying? Rainwater is ok most of the world. That is outside big cities, industries and erupting volcanoes.
Adjusting CG multiple tanks (fuel, water, ballast). I prefer downwind heavier stern, but how much hard to tell..
__________________

__________________
TeddyDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 02:50   #3
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,330
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

The rainwater I have collected offshore is waaay better than most town water.

I didn't concern myself with honning survial skills, I just collected it to keep the tanks topped up - never had a watermaker or suchlike.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 03:24   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonifay, FL & Huntingdon, PA
Boat: Islander I-37, MS, Tradewind 32
Posts: 52
Images: 2
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Wotname & Teddy Diver & All,

The water I saw on the windshield of in a aircraft at altitude was dirty looking while flying thru clouds. Now that I think about it.... I've never seen rain that looked dirty when it hit the ground.

I try to prove out emergency procedures from people that have had them and made the right choices to deal with that emergency.

I've never collected rain water. Now, I know it's not that complicated, capture it and drink it.

Avery
__________________
HighFly_27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 03:24   #5
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,947
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Hmmmm....
Lost mast once 700 miles offshore.... motored.
Blew main ( below 3rd reef ) once 1400 miles from next port of consequence.... motored, motor sailed, sailed.
Moral of story.... aside from the maintainence and renewal side of things... carry lots of fuel... I typically carry 200 + 300 litres which at 2.5 lph gives me 1000 miles.. and don't forget to carry lots of lube oil.

Blew head gasket about 500 miles to go, could run for 15 minutes, sailed.

FW circ pump totally utterly u/s in a glassy calm...drifted

Now carry a spare FW circ pump or two.

Lift pump failed when 200 metres off a steep too coast in a calm... replaced with spare lift pump.

Replacement lift pump failed 7 years later when about to sail on a long sea passage... replaced with rebuilt original lift pump.


Never had a water problem but on long sea passages carry not just 400 litres in tanks but also about 100 litres shop bought water ( strange things can happen to tap water exposed to sunlight over time.. my Tongan water went quite green in a very shortish period of time). Last trip used about 200 litres in 38 days with 2 people.

Didn't happen to me ... but ... don't leave your rainwater catching kit rigged overnight when near Chilean volcanoes.

Fore and aft trim...even keel.

Edited to add... also carry a spare starter motor, alternator, head gaskets and stuff.
El Pinguino is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 08:37   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonifay, FL & Huntingdon, PA
Boat: Islander I-37, MS, Tradewind 32
Posts: 52
Images: 2
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Wow El Pringuion,

That's Great Info. & Your Solution(s) to Major Problems.

I see that you've leaned to prepare for the unexpected/ past trouble(s); so No Repeats of the same Breakdowns. This was excatly the information I was looking for from this post.


No one can pack everything for what may go wrong; you can pack for what's (most) likely to go wrong.

Folks that don't have a lot of experience on long passages can learn from you & others.. regarding breakdowns at sea.

Thank You,

Avery
__________________
HighFly_27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 08:49   #7
Registered User
 
Manos1955's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thessalonki Greece
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 153
Send a message via Skype™ to Manos1955
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
Wow El Pringuion,

That's Great Info. & Your Solution(s) to Major Problems.

I see that you've leaned to prepare for the unexpected/ past trouble(s); so No Repeats of the same Breakdowns. This was excatly the information I was looking for from this post.


No one can pack everything for what may go wrong; you can pack for what's (most) likely to go wrong.

Folks that don't have a lot of experience on long passages can learn from you & others.. regarding breakdowns at sea.

Thank You,

Avery
Hi Avery
You never know what will go wrong on a boat sailing off shore!
You should be a kind of MacGyver and be prepared for the unexpected. You MUST have spares for all ships components that are crucial for your safety- and you should learn how to fix the crucial stuff on board - all alone. You may need to take a weekend course or so- but this will be a great investment.
Sit down a calm Sunday morning, and start writing what may go wrong on your boat. Then make sure that you have the adequate spare parts and or tools to fix it. It may take you couple of Sundays to finish the task, but believe me it worth it.
(of course I talk for crucial components and not stuff like the ventilator or a broken wooden table)
__________________
Manos1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 08:58   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: GREEN COVE SPRINGS, Florida
Boat: Irwin 43 Mk111 CC, Sloop
Posts: 362
Send a message via Skype™ to adlib2
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
Wotname & Teddy Diver & All,

The water I saw on the windshield of in a aircraft at altitude was dirty looking while flying thru clouds. Now that I think about it.... I've never seen rain that looked dirty when it hit the ground.

I try to prove out emergency procedures from people that have had them and made the right choices to deal with that emergency.

I've never collected rain water. Now, I know it's not that complicated, capture it and drink it.

Avery
Once read a report that rain water tested in the Caribbean had traces of Camel Dung from Africa~~
__________________
adlib2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:26   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

See inside quotes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
Hello All,

I've thought about some of the Worst Things that could happen at sea. This Survival Scenario is based on being over a thousand miles away from known help i.e. the USCG or the like.

Scenario, your Crippled and over a 1000 miles from known help.

1. Loss of Rudder

a. Knocked completely off, gone.

b. Loss of Rudder by steering linkage but can be used with emergency tiller.

I had made a spare rudder and had mounted gudgeons on the transom. It would have been nearly impossible to install until weather abated. Boat I had then and have now are both tiller steered, no linkage.

2. Loss of Main Sail.

a. Ripped to Hell and (nearly) not repairable at sea.

Both boats sail upwind under jib alone with some lee helm, so just a loss of efficiency.

b. Ripped & carrying a extra sails but winds are high and can't deploy it now.

Put out a drogue and run, some circumstances that wouldn't be possible.

3. Engine Dead

a. Engine quit and will not start, checked everything

b. Engine gets hot and have to shut it off after 15 minutes.

If I couldn't fix the engine, sail. I know quite a bit about engines, but you can't carry spares for everything, and some things you can't fix with JB weld.

4. Low on Fresh Drinking Water, 25 Galion's Remaining for 2 People.

a. You have a 115 volt water maker but your engine is not running. You were running your engine 2 hours a day to charge your battery's & operate 115 volt water maker.

b. You have a tarp to catch rainwater but it has not rained in a weeks time;
So, you're at mercy of mother nature to catch rainwater.

I bought a goretex solar still back then for emergency water, don't think they're still available. Probably get a hand pump water maker for emergencies today.

*** I asking for your viewpoint / knowledge of the added questions (below) because I do not know, only from what I've read in books

Is rainwater (collected at sea) drinkable upon collection ? I have read about people surviving for months at time at sea by catching rainwater.

However, I have never tried to catch rainwater at sea to determine how easy or difficult it is to collect. I have seen how dirty water is at altitude when flying thru it in a aircraft. Is or can rainwater be as dirty as I've seen it at altitude ?

Has anyone collected rainwater at sea and drank it to hone their survivor skills ?

Note:

I could not create all the type of situations that one could/ or may encounter at sea. I tried to list the ones that we're familiar with.

I'd like to hear about the major problems you've encountered at sea and how you solved your problem(s) and survived.

Closing, I've attended military survival schools & have survivor type books. I'm interested in hearing about ones actual experiences over text book explanations.

One last thing as Detective Colombo would say.

If you were setting the forward & aft. center of gravity (CG) by loading the sailboat internally; would you set it with a -- Aft CG to take rough seas better in a heavy storm ? If so, what amount in Inches or Percentage would you want the Bow to be up in relationship to a dead neutral waterline. You do not see this type of information in sailing books.


Avery
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:30   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 12
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
Hello All,

I've thought about some of the Worst Things that could happen at sea. This Survival Scenario is based on being over a thousand miles away from known help i.e. the USCG or the like.

Scenario, your Crippled and over a 1000 miles from known help.

1. Loss of Rudder

a. Knocked completely off, gone.

b. Loss of Rudder by steering linkage but can be used with emergency tiller.

2. Loss of Main Sail.

a. Ripped to Hell and (nearly) not repairable at sea.

b. Ripped & carrying a extra sails but winds are high and can't deploy it now.

3. Engine Dead

a. Engine quit and will not start, checked everything

b. Engine gets hot and have to shut it off after 15 minutes.

4. Low on Fresh Drinking Water, 25 Galion's Remaining for 2 People.

a. You have a 115 volt water maker but your engine is not running. You were running your engine 2 hours a day to charge your battery's & operate 115 volt water maker.

b. You have a tarp to catch rainwater but it has not rained in a weeks time;
So, you're at mercy of mother nature to catch rainwater.

*** I asking for your viewpoint / knowledge of the added questions (below) because I do not know, only from what I've read in books

Is rainwater (collected at sea) drinkable upon collection ? I have read about people surviving for months at time at sea by catching rainwater.

However, I have never tried to catch rainwater at sea to determine how easy or difficult it is to collect. I have seen how dirty water is at altitude when flying thru it in a aircraft. Is or can rainwater be as dirty as I've seen it at altitude ?

Has anyone collected rainwater at sea and drank it to hone their survivor skills ?

Note:

I could not create all the type of situations that one could/ or may encounter at sea. I tried to list the ones that we're familiar with.

I'd like to hear about the major problems you've encountered at sea and how you solved your problem(s) and survived.

Closing, I've attended military survival schools & have survivor type books. I'm interested in hearing about ones actual experiences over text book explanations.

One last thing as Detective Colombo would say.

If you were setting the forward & aft. center of gravity (CG) by loading the sailboat internally; would you set it with a -- Aft CG to take rough seas better in a heavy storm ? If so, what amount in Inches or Percentage would you want the Bow to be up in relationship to a dead neutral waterline. You do not see this type of information in sailing books.


Avery
No problem! The United States Power Squadrons have just a course to teach you what to do in times of emergncy at sea. It's a two hour course and you will be amazed at how much you will learn.
__________________
SWTFRDOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:32   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonifay, FL & Huntingdon, PA
Boat: Islander I-37, MS, Tradewind 32
Posts: 52
Images: 2
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Manos 1955 & All,

You're Spot-On with your Comment's.

I will add some info. from my 30 years of diesel engine experience.

Never assume that you have the correct parts, unless you check them. I have bought the correct parts (part number wise) but they were not correct. This can be true with all parts you buy.

When doing complex repairs and you're out of your comfort zone... double & triple check yourself. Make sure you have the manual and special tools required.

I learned from the former owner of my I-37. He had a thru-fitting let go and nearly lost his boat. It happen at night and his pumps (barely) kept up with all the water coming in. He replaced all the fittings on his boat after this & anything else that had some age on it.

This point goes full circle to preventive maint. and the need to replace time change items because of age and time in service (ref. pending failure).

I'm considering a third bilge pump (auto) system. My boat has one auto system on it & (1) manual back up pump. I can't think of anything more important than having multi pumps available to save your boat from sinking.

Folks are hitting all types of things in the ocean. It seems like a demolition derby out there with -- submerged conex's, wales, other boats, running aground, etc. . I'm all about having enough pumping capacity to keep me afloat.

Avery
__________________
HighFly_27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:36   #12
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,147
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

When crossing the atlantic, our red runnin light failed. Sounds minor, but it was LED and the bulb was not replacable. After much consternation, we built a new light from scratch. We used the red lens, the guts of a handheld spotlight, and built the body out of duct tape. It lit up, and was red. Was ok until the batteries got so low we started leaving the lights off at night. IMHO, that was a big mistake, but not my call.

Another time, on my own small sailboat, the outboard failed when I had 3 young kids with me, and there was little wind. After wasting time trying to get the engine to restart, I put up the sails, and got going. It took a while, but we got to a safe island...I even sailed right onto the dock. Later, I could get the engine to start and run only at high rpm. This was enough to get me home. I'd come screaming into the harbour, then cut the engine and just coast onto the dock. It was mostly guesswork, but spectators thought it was cool. Finally, I just took the motor off, and just went sailing anyway. I found I could sail on and off my home dock. My only worry was running out of wind...but that never happened. The outboard went in for repairs...blew out the carb and it was fine.

The best way to avoid disaster is to plan for it. Motor is not necessary, its a sailboat. Losing the rig is bad...hope you have a motor then. Sat phone means you can call home from anywhere. The most important things...Don't sink, keep sailing, bring lots of water and food. Everything else is luxury.
__________________
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:40   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fort Pierce, Florida
Boat: 45' Plywood Ketch, Homebuilt
Posts: 80
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Learn how to fix everything on your boat, and carry spares. And if you don't know how to fix something, be creative and see if you can use something else in its place. As for water, I have always made it a point to catch water while offshore. I have tried taking a shower in certain towns in Florida, and believed I smelled worse after I came out; people drink that stuff?
Finally, save your sails and learn to reef before the winds pick up. As the saying goes, if you think you should reef, it is time. Don't invite disaster.
__________________
SVJennie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 09:55   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
seasick's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Boat: Brewer designed Pacific 43 in fiberglass. Center cockpit set up for long-distance single handing.
Posts: 428
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

Lost rudder a day out of Maui heading for Fanning atoll. Sailed 800 miles by sail trim. Storm jib poled out to windward and clew forward while broad reaching to keep the bow off the wind.

Hoisting the main boom with the topping lift to form a trough in the sail, to channel rain water toward the goose neck works well once the salt is washed off the sail.

Rigged a small triangle of wood with equal length ropes to the points, to a line running through a block tied to the standing rigging then down to the manual bilge pump handle. As the triangle jumped in and out of the passing water, the pump handle was drawn up and a lead weight from my dive belt pushed it back down thus staying ahead of a leak that developed in the stem.

In my mind an EPIRB should only be activated when death is immenent.

Limited only by your resourcefulness.

A mast gone by the board would be a biggy. This is why I always carry a ton of rice, floor, and beans as survival food. Broken halyards are more likely and I always rig at least two that can be used to hoist either a job or main.

Witnessed a dead man, half up the mast that came into the Aliwai in 1973 after the halyard he was being hoisted on jammed and he lost his grip on the mast. Flailed about until he was gone. His wife kept the kids below and steered day and night for a week. Since then, I keep spare halyards a plenty and never go aloft at sea.
__________________
seasick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 10:00   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

We always keep several water jerry cans 90% full for any emergency that may crop up. Our water maker is a 12v model and we have a heap of solar panels and a wind generator. We have two autopilots installed as well.
We have our old mainsail and a gennaker stored on board and a hefty whisker pole. As for diesel, we again always have 50 litres minimum in cans on top of our standard fuel storage - if going on a passage where we expect to motor we may elect to use one or even both of our 200 litre fuel bags. We also have a stand alone Iridium telephone........our final chance to seek assistance should things get out of control. We have a power gorilla c/w solar panel to recharge the Iridium should it need it and keep 200 minutes of airtime on it - valid for two years.
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
drinking water, rudder, sail, sails, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Cooler Bottle for Drinking water. Bakermonitor Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 0 22-02-2015 17:43
Ray Mears Extreme Survival: Sea Survival Ashura Health, Safety & Related Gear 2 18-11-2013 02:59
water hose and drinking water RDW Health, Safety & Related Gear 31 30-10-2013 12:32
Battery Water; Distilled Drinking Water vs. Deionized Battery Water ErikFinn Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 33 09-08-2013 07:50
ownership, registrations, tax etc etc etc, (future boat owner) liquido Dollars & Cents 1 20-07-2008 06:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.