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Old 12-05-2015, 15:51   #31
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by adlib2 View Post
Once read a report that rain water tested in the Caribbean had traces of Camel Dung from Africa~~
That's called exotic rainwater.

Truth is, I bet any and every drop of rainwater is quite drinkable compared to the dust in the bottom of an empty water tank. And probably much safer than a lot of dock water you're going to find. Sometimes you just can't be prissy about things.

If one is really worried, there are water purification kits that backpackers use. They are small and slow and won't produce water for anything more than drinking, but that's really all you need to stay alive for the hopefully few days until you reach some port with drinkable water.
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Old 12-05-2015, 16:06   #32
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
My kids think its funny...they think everyone can sail into a slip at a crowded marina. They are confident I can fix anything that breaks. They think I can make a supper out of any old cans found at the back of the deep lockers when we get stuck in the middle of noplace waiting for a storm to blow itself out.
Lucky kids!
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Old 12-05-2015, 16:39   #33
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

FatBear and All,

I'm aware that, we will drink about anything to stay alive. I grew up on a farm in PA and still have fond memories of the spring water we had on our farm.

However, later in life, I've been prone to an upset stomach (fairly often) and eat bland foods. My water supply in FL is Ok but no prize either. I've corrected my FL water problem with a water softer/ water purification system. My boat is a 1970 year model with 45 year old pipes; so it's water system is no prize as well. I'm going to open the water system up and do what's needed to make it right again (clean water supply sys.).

This post was created to find out about capturing rain water at sea and drinking it (for real). I mentioned earlier about going to survival school and using water purification tablets.. I get it but not a lot of actual experience.

I've determined, that reading something in a book or having an instructors inputs is quite different than being under the gun for the 1st time & being in a actual day to day survival situation. This is why I asked for folks to respond that have collected rain water and drank it on a routine basis.... this speaks volumes to me over book knowledge.

Avery
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Old 12-05-2015, 17:48   #34
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by FatBear View Post
That's called exotic rainwater.

Truth is, I bet any and every drop of rainwater is quite drinkable compared to the dust in the bottom of an empty water tank. And probably much safer than a lot of dock water you're going to find. Sometimes you just can't be prissy about things.

If one is really worried, there are water purification kits that backpackers use. They are small and slow and won't produce water for anything more than drinking, but that's really all you need to stay alive for the hopefully few days until you reach some port with drinkable water.
Caribbean hell. The water off the catchments is probably cleaner than the tankers tanks that transport water in?
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Old 21-05-2016, 14:35   #35
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
This post was created to find out about capturing rain water at sea and drinking it (for real).
Under survival conditions. Having lived for 4.5 years with SIBO, I understand sensitive stomachs, but I'd still have drunk any fresh water if I had to to survive.

Now here's another thought if you are still interested. Take a Brita pitcher and a bunch of filters. They are portable, filter a lot of water, and not too awfully expensive. Filter the rainwater from your sails through that and it should be much safer to drink.
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Old 21-05-2016, 15:01   #36
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post

Closing, I've attended military survival schools & have survivor type books.


Avery
Hi Avery,

I would suggest stop thinking about it. You and me get into creative mode when we get into the situation.
One thing I have learned if that you can never predict your emergency so if you decide u will run out of water so carry an extra 10 million liters the emergency will be food.

Get it?




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Old 21-05-2016, 15:29   #37
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pirate Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
FatBear and All,

I'm aware that, we will drink about anything to stay alive. I grew up on a farm in PA and still have fond memories of the spring water we had on our farm.

However, later in life, I've been prone to an upset stomach (fairly often) and eat bland foods. My water supply in FL is Ok but no prize either. I've corrected my FL water problem with a water softer/ water purification system. My boat is a 1970 year model with 45 year old pipes; so it's water system is no prize as well. I'm going to open the water system up and do what's needed to make it right again (clean water supply sys.).

This post was created to find out about capturing rain water at sea and drinking it (for real). I mentioned earlier about going to survival school and using water purification tablets.. I get it but not a lot of actual experience.

I've determined, that reading something in a book or having an instructors inputs is quite different than being under the gun for the 1st time & being in a actual day to day survival situation. This is why I asked for folks to respond that have collected rain water and drank it on a routine basis.... this speaks volumes to me over book knowledge.

Avery
Caught rain water on the leg from Nuku Hiva to Samoa in the S Pacific.. the water was green and not potable on the island so we bought a few 5 litre bottles and hoped for rain.. from the second day out we got a couple of squalls a day which yielded around 4-6 buckets a time.. hung a bucket at the goose neck and topped the boom a bit so the rain ran down the sail with the bulk running into the bucket.
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:09   #38
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

We have never treated rainwater before drinking it. We have topped the main boom up to catch rainwater in a bucket, too; then, we had a shelf foot main, and put a through-hull fitting in it, with a tygon hose to the deck fills.

Friends, waited for the rain to wash the decks, then made towel dams to divert deck water via a hose to buckets suspended from the toe rail.

Later, we made a cockpit awning that doubled as a rain catcher, with a sewn spout for a hose attachment. The main sail is a large catchment, and the cockpit awning caught a lot. On this boat we have two giant funnels, port and starboard at the lower corners of the awning, hose slides over the tip, and into water jugs, from which we syphon into our tanks. We like to let it set a while, and see that it is free of particulates before putting it in the tanks. Often, that first water is just rinsing off the awning, and is good for laundry, but we don't drink it. After the collection surface is "clean", the rainwater is beaut.

Many people in the US are unfamiliar with rainwater catchment for household use, but it is without problems for much of the South Pacific.

Ann
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:26   #39
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

We catch rain water all the time after allowing salt and bird poop to wash off. It tests much lower in suspended solids than does our watermaker water.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 21-05-2016, 17:44   #40
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

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Originally Posted by HighFly_27 View Post
Scenario, your Crippled and over a 1000 miles from known help.

1. Loss of Rudder

a. Knocked completely off, gone.

b. Loss of Rudder by steering linkage but can be used with emergency tiller.
A) Big problem. Rig some sort of jury rudder/drogue/sweep, adjust sails and limp home. Best to aviod this one by making sure your rudder is beyond question.

B) Not an issue at all. Steer home. Have Beer.
Quote:
2. Loss of Main Sail.

a. Ripped to Hell and (nearly) not repairable at sea.

b. Ripped & carrying a extra sails but winds are high and can't deploy it now.
Both scenarios are common and should be no problem to a competant seaman. Boats will sail ok without main in most cases. Rig a headsail up as a main if you haven't got a trysail or a spare.
Quote:
3. Engine Dead

a. Engine quit and will not start, checked everything

b. Engine gets hot and have to shut it off after 15 minutes.
its a sailing boat. Sail! You have 1000 miles to work out whats wrong with the engine...
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4. Low on Fresh Drinking Water, 25 Galion's Remaining for 2 People.
Low? Thats plenty of fresh water for two people for a couple of weeks. Should be no problem with only 1000 miles to go. Stop having showers and ration water slightly.


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If you were setting the forward & aft. center of gravity (CG) by loading the sailboat internally; would you set it with a -- Aft CG to take rough seas better in a heavy storm ? If so, what amount in Inches or Percentage would you want the Bow to be up in relationship to a dead neutral waterline. You do not see this type of information in sailing books.
Normally just slightly by the stern. Depends on the boat, but thats my starting point.

Also if you're going to be mostly on one tack load he heavy on the upwind side.
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Old 21-05-2016, 19:01   #41
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

As far as loss of rudder, it's just another good reason to learn sailing on small boats

On beachcats for example, many times we sail off the beach with the rudders and boards in the up position due to the shallow water

Sometimes if we are having prerace food or drink, we just sail all the way to the starting area with the rudders up.

You need to think of the rudder as more of a trim tab than that which actually steers the boat.

Loss of the rudder is no big thing for some; disaster for others especially those that spend more time working on their boats than sailing
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Old 21-05-2016, 19:54   #42
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

^^ I would beg to differ with you on this Thomm225, loss of a rudder well offshore is usually a big problem. This is very different to sailing a hobie cat inshore. With good seamanship, preparations, and luck it can be handled without outside assistance, but it is a serious problem.
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Old 21-05-2016, 20:33   #43
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

I have encountered most of the mentioned scenarios. Here's what I do:
1) I carry a spare rudder. I install it for all crossings. I'd rather carry the drag than have to install it in a storm at sea. But I have a multi-hull. Slowing down is more of a concern than speeding up for me.

2) I upload an extra 4 cases of bottled water for each person aboard per 1,000 miles of passage. Water is only consumed when and if the watermaker fails (which it has) or if we run out of ships water (which we have) and there is no rain in sight (which was the case the last two passages).

3) Engine failure/ power setup. I have an extensive solar array that will normally recharge my batteries every day. My water maker is very low draw. Also have wind generator. Fortunately I have a new Kubota from Beta Marine so no issues yet but I carry a couple of Honda Eu 2000i's with plenty of gasoline to power them for any given power emergency, should the solar fail. Wind gens will give you power but won't charge up your batteries.

Failing all of that I carry a handheld GPS and handheld marine radio in a faraday bag in case a lightening strike blew out all systems. Not that that will help until I'm within sight of land. The idea being, I would dead reckon to land then turn on my spare GPS and position plot of charts thereafter only using the radio when necessary. I have plenty of spare sails so I feel I can always reach land... eventually.

Failing all of that I have InReach GPS texting, sailmail, SSB and of course EPIRB and a PLB. I feel I've sort of covered all bases. At some point you just need to get to sea and accept some amount of inherant risk.

Two passages ago, I had almost no wind, despite the forecast being for 25 kts. I lacked enough diesel to justify motoring the whole time (plus I hate motoring on a sailboat... if I liked motoring I would've bought a trawler). I set up the spinnaker to run on it's own which got my speed up to 5.5 kts (from 2 kts). At night I motored at 4.5 kts. I calculated using up all fuel by destination based on this strategy but the last 48 hrs the wind kicked up and I didn't need it. In fact I was going so fast I had a hard time getting the spinnaker down and ended up running over it. I planned for an 84 hr passage (based on 6.5 kts) but the passage ended up taking 139 hrs due to breakdowns and lack of wind. I was down to 5 gallons of water on the last day. The watermaker was pickeled so I was planning on ships water and rain which never materialized despite the forecast.

A month later I uploaded all the water I could, and all the diesel I could. Forecast was for 5 kts of wind so I brought enough fuel to motor nearly 1,000 miles (10 5 and 6 gal jerry cans plus two 30 gal fuel bladders additional to her tanks). I was planning on a 12-16 day passage... 10 if I was lucky. As soon as we left the wind kicked up tot 25 kts in squall after squall. Made the passage (a little over 1,000 miles) in under 5.5 days. Never needed to start the engine except the last 6-8 hrs of the journey. The Spectra watermaker failed to show anything less than 1,000 PPM desite being completely rebuilt by Spectra and having a brand new membrane. If it wasn't for the 8 cases of water that I uploaded and a couple of rain catchment events, we would've had to seriously ration.

Point of all this being... ya never know what's going to happen. Wind is often different from forecast and gear fails. It's always a good idea to have a plan B and C and D. As soon as we left the atoll pass the 2nd AP failed. My daughter wanted to turn back. No way. We're going. After having my 13 yr old daughter hand steer for 3 hrs while I troubleshot the AP issue I attached the 3rd AP to the stby rudder in the middle of a storm and it held course for 18 hrs before it actually "CAUGHT FIRE" fortunately the rain put it out and thank God I was monitoring it (liner arm froze up yet the motor kept running). I'm not sure why the CB didn't trip. Pulled out a 4th AP, one I bought on craigslist 10 years ago for $25. That one steered us for two days before I was able to finally repair the main AP. At the end of the day you have to accept some risk and just go.

Of course I'm fortunate to have a boat where a lot of this stuff was designed into her by the previous owner. But that's also why I spent 6 years looking for the right boat capable of offshore cruising yet with all the creature comforts that I wanted. I came across many that were almost set up properly but I kept passing until I found the one that was tried, trued, and tested. Sure stuff fails. That's boating. But it's how you deal with the situation that determines the stress level and the outcome. And in that regard it's how you plan for it all before you set sail.
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Old 22-05-2016, 02:25   #44
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

25 gallons of water left for two people? That's about 95 litres. At anchor I use about 10 litres a week if I don't bathe, so it should last two people almost five weeks with care. If you don't find land or get rain by then you might be in trouble but I wouldn't worry about it.

Four of us went to NZ a couple years ago and we arrived at Nelson with the 400 litre tanks dry and about 5 litres left in the plastic bottles. But the skipper had a tendency to waste it by washing the decks clean of salt regularly.
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Old 22-05-2016, 04:45   #45
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Re: Survival ??} Loss of: Rudder, Sails, Eng., Low on Drinking Water, etc.

With the exception of water I don't see anything on the list I consider anything more than a big pain in the butt to deal with on a well stocked boat.
Unless your boat is a real POS and it all happens at once!
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