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Old 31-08-2014, 12:32   #31
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

"I like the guys that said you cant get in and out of ports in a current. I guess they don't use tide charts. "

Ports? No one said ports, did they?

There are, however, a large number of inlets on the east coast that can be impassible for 24 hours because of weather conditions, regardless of the tides. And the tidal state doesn't count. Tides reflect the height of the water, currents are the horizontal motion, which is what often makes inlets impassible or outright dangerous.

A while back a mutual friend set out from NYC to do some casual globehopping. His boat was reported running down the New Jersey with no one on deck in a storm. The NJSP and USCG both refused to go out and search for him until the next day, because the inlets on the NJ shore were impassible in simple storm conditions, even for trained rescue personnel. The submerged wreck was found the next day. The friend's body was never recovered.

He also knew just how safe and gentle the New Jersey shore was.

Tide charts? A good start. In flat water, daylight, and good weather. Nothing more than that.
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Old 31-08-2014, 13:19   #32
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

You've got some good advice--- some --- but some good. The biggest problems with single handing in the ICW is using the head and dealing with engine issues. Be sure you have a decent auto pilot that can hold a heading and an anchor windlass. I don't have a windlass and on a 33 it is a PITA of I need to drop the anchor quick and retrieving is always a hoot.

Also learn the major systems before going. Notably how to change fuel filters and bleed the fuel system. Buy a good, complete set of tools to address the stuff that is going to break and have appropriate spares and replacement filters on board.

Be sure to bring with you all the caution you exercise on your "day job" and you should do well.
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Old 31-08-2014, 13:37   #33
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

I've sailed by lots of monohull sailboats sitting dead still trying to exit or enter thru an inlet (or pass) with motor pushed as hard it would go and they are just sitting still and that was in good weather. I couldn't image it in bad weather. The current and weather would just do what it wanted with the average (monohull) sailboat in bad weather.

HELLOSAILOR I am referring to this post

first of all he said he seen lots of monohull sailboats sitting dead trying to exit a pass, this tells me they are motoring into wind. sea. and current=dumb
next he said he passes them by,,, so he is doing a dumb thing also. unless he is on a power boat laughing at them and this= dumb
next he said this was in good weather= so tide charts would play a huge rule in these acts of dumbness. all in all its all just dumb.
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Old 31-08-2014, 13:49   #34
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

also if you want me to stop reading my tide charts when I go sailing,well thanks for the tip, but its one of the first things I do and will always do
and TIDES GO OUT AND IN = CURRENT
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Old 31-08-2014, 14:14   #35
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

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Originally Posted by gah964 View Post
also if you want me to stop reading my tide charts when I go sailing,well thanks for the tip, but its one of the first things I do and will always do
and TIDES GO OUT AND IN = CURRENT
Just do remember that in some places, wind driven currents and gravity driven (river mouths etc) currents completely mask any tidal current. For instance, the Rigolets. (Pronouncified "RIG-a-lees") with a west wind you can have several knots for days, as lake Pontchartrain empties out. Likewise, a southeast wind can push water through the pass for days, regardless of the small astronomical tides. Tide tables are nearly irrelevant except for figuring out when the fish are biting.

Don't delete your tide apps or toss your tables, but remember actual currents can vary considerably from what you would predict.
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Old 31-08-2014, 14:16   #36
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

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Originally Posted by gah964 View Post
I've sailed by lots of monohull sailboats sitting dead still trying to exit or enter thru an inlet (or pass) with motor pushed as hard it would go and they are just sitting still and that was in good weather. I couldn't image it in bad weather. The current and weather would just do what it wanted with the average (monohull) sailboat in bad weather.

HELLOSAILOR I am referring to this post

first of all he said he seen lots of monohull sailboats sitting dead trying to exit a pass, this tells me they are motoring into wind. sea. and current=dumb
next he said he passes them by,,, so he is doing a dumb thing also. unless he is on a power boat laughing at them and this= dumb
next he said this was in good weather= so tide charts would play a huge rule in these acts of dumbness. all in all its all just dumb.
Well looks like you have most all the answers, but I did sail passed these ole boys. It was just an observation at the time because I was racing.

I really didn't consider their situation until later when I got an old slow monohull sailboat myself.

To set the record straight, I was sailing my NACRA F-17 heading out Pensacola Pass during a Sea Buoy race and the tide was coming in. That's just one example and I have lots more from boats in Destin Pass.

I had the boards (daggerboards/keels) up a bit and sailed in shallow water where the current was much less. (although to pass the monohull I could have sailed within 2' of him and still have flown by) Hey, it's a racing thing, I don't expect you to understand!

Also, I was on a 300lb boat with the same sail area as my 6600lb Bristol 27 plus spinnaker......See video below maybe then you will then understand.

I have also had some power boat adventures in what used to be Metompkin Inlet on the Atlantic off the Eastern Shore as a 16 year old. You can image the type of boat I could afford as a 16 year old. We usually rode a wave in for enough power to get thru on out going current days!

You gotta love this guy with his tide charts!




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Old 01-09-2014, 07:59   #37
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

So, do a couple do day sails around Boston.

Pick a nice day and run down to Plymouth.

Then run through the canal.

Now you have a few days to make your way down Buzzards Bay and the Sound. That will give you some experience on how the boat handles.

Then you run out to Sandy Hook/Highlands and wait for a weather window and run for Cape May. This will be a VERY long run single handing. Give yourself time to spare to make Cape May in daylight, you may leave about midnight or earlier. Having crew is advisable, but not completely mandatory.

Then your up the Delaware, catch the tide, and down the Chesapeake. The only tough part is the Jersey coast run.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:05   #38
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

The toughest part of your trip will be Sandy Hook /Highlands to Cape May. It's a bit over 100 miles, so your looking at a 24 hour passage. I'd skip the Jersey islet's. All else is in at least protected waters or short day trip.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:40   #39
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

Join ActiveCaptain and study the info on the possible stops along the way.


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Old 01-09-2014, 09:49   #40
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

A couple of things pop immediately to mind. In short...

If all you have is freshwater experience on smaller boats, going offshore for the first time alone is not a good idea, on ANY boat, for the simple fact that if you get seasick or otherwise incapacitated, you'll have a major problem on your hands. You need to learn how to manage the boat at sea, which can be very different from coastal conditions, and doing that solo for the first time is fraught with risk.

Second, taking any newly acquired boat offshore is unwise until after you are thoroughly familiar with the condition, repair, and maintenance of critical structure and systems. One broken shroud in heavy weather, broken chain on the quadrant, etc., and you could easily lose the boat, particularly if you don't have heavy weather experience.

A survey? It's great for purchase and insurance purposes. It's virtually useless as a gauge of the boat's seaworthiness. The surveyor spends 6 hours on your boat and flags what he/she can easily find. There is a lot that they can't and won't.

Save the solo adventure for when you have adequate knowledge of and confidence in your boat, and for when you have sufficient time on your boat in the conditions you expect to solo in.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:28   #41
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

Clark -- first welcome to the forum -- second i did the trip you are talking about single handed but i did both ways - miami to hadley harbor and back and i had barely sailed out of Biscayne Bay - and i sail a 40' boat

A few things:
1 - get TowBoat US towing insurance - if you go aground or need fuel or anything else the small cost is well worth it and the ICW is a bit shallow in spots and lots of folks go aground -
2. try to hook up with other boats headed south. That means you will probably need to leave fairly soon as a lot of boats in Maine are heading south now and so should you - Talk to some of the boats headed south and see if you can hook up with them and buddy boat down as it makes it easier and if they are experienced they will help.
3. as mentioned above the trip from Sandy Hook to Cape May is an overnighter - plan so - and get a day or 2 rest in Cape May
4. Tide planning is critical. Getting into and out of Long Island Sound can be an issue if you hit the tides wrong. Going up Delware Bay is also a timing issue on the wrong tide. OH and you can anchor just before the C&D canal and run it on the proper tide.
5. On the ICW I planned for 50 nm a day. With bridges ect more somedays but i always planned on 50nm or so a day and sat with charts and did the math each evening to see where tomorrows anchorage will be.
6. It is very doable. But you will need to leave soon as the weather patterns change and it becomes less doable later.

good luck and have a fun trip.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:39   #42
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

Would it have been more productive for the OP to have asked for responses from those on this Forum who either exclusively or frequently single-hand their boats? A competent single-hander IS a different breed of cat and those who have never sailed alone for any distance and advise another to do so should not be considered qualified advisors. To sail alone does not mean you will confront the Boogey Man, but it will show you quickly what skills you must have and how your boat should be rigged for safety and ease of handling. There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:38   #43
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

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Would it have been more productive for the OP to have asked for responses from those on this Forum who either exclusively or frequently single-hand their boats? A competent single-hander IS a different breed of cat and those who have never sailed alone for any distance and advise another to do so should not be considered qualified advisors. To sail alone does not mean you will confront the Boogey Man, but it will show you quickly what skills you must have and how your boat should be rigged for safety and ease of handling. There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them. Good luck and good sailing.
I single hand, so my advice to the OP is find a helper/mate and don't single hand
But really I only single hand because most people bail at the last min.
and my wife works 5 days a week.
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Old 02-09-2014, 13:41   #44
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

"and TIDES GO OUT AND IN = CURRENT "
No, they do not go in and out. Tides go up and down, never in and out. Look up any definition or glossary from any reputable source.
When the tide rises and the water gets higher "here" than it is "there", the tidal rise creates a current flow from "here" to "there". Currents are also created by and for other reasons, including the gravitational pull of the sun and moon, the rotation of the earth, and weather fronts, especially high winds over long fetches.
As a result, you will usually find "tidal current" tables that say something like "Slack water in the Damned Inlet is 1:14 after high tide at the Damned Point". Slack water being the state of the CURRENT and no, it does not always mechanically follow the tide that way. It is often an hour off the projected time, due to things like fresh water draining from land after heavy storms, causing higher water inland which forces water out of inlets longer than usual.

Not my opinion. That's the book definition of it. Tides go up and down, currents go sideways. Tidal currents refers to the current normally caused by tidal shifts. And "rip tides", a term heard on every TV Nooze show, don't exist at all. Those are also rip currents.

Sailboats sitting still at inlets? I've been motorsailing, with engine and sails, with a racing crew, in the Hellgate (NYC) and making almost seven knots through the water for an hours. Groundspeed? Ergh, about a hundred yards in the same time. That's all from trying to fight just the current, not the tide. It was either that, or anchor, and if you know the holding grounds near there, you don't risk your anchor when you can go sailing.
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Old 02-09-2014, 14:30   #45
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Re: Survivability of Novice Sailors

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"and TIDES GO OUT AND IN = CURRENT "
No, they do not go in and out. Tides go up and down, never in and out. Look up any definition or glossary from any reputable source.
When the tide rises and the water gets higher "here" than it is "there", the tidal rise creates a current flow from "here" to "there". Currents are also created by and for other reasons, including the gravitational pull of the sun and moon, the rotation of the earth, and weather fronts, especially high winds over long fetches.
As a result, you will usually find "tidal current" tables that say something like "Slack water in the Damned Inlet is 1:14 after high tide at the Damned Point". Slack water being the state of the CURRENT and no, it does not always mechanically follow the tide that way. It is often an hour off the projected time, due to things like fresh water draining from land after heavy storms, causing higher water inland which forces water out of inlets longer than usual.

Not my opinion. That's the book definition of it. Tides go up and down, currents go sideways. Tidal currents refers to the current normally caused by tidal shifts. And "rip tides", a term heard on every TV Nooze show, don't exist at all. Those are also rip currents.

Sailboats sitting still at inlets? I've been motorsailing, with engine and sails, with a racing crew, in the Hellgate (NYC) and making almost seven knots through the water for an hours. Groundspeed? Ergh, about a hundred yards in the same time. That's all from trying to fight just the current, not the tide. It was either that, or anchor, and if you know the holding grounds near there, you don't risk your anchor when you can go sailing.
wow dude im over the tide debate your politically correctness
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