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Old 31-10-2012, 12:30   #1
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Staysail without a mast rail

These are boats that are going to race the Pantaenius-Rund-Skagen-Regatta a race on the North Sea, between Germany and Ireland. That is an offshore race that has the possibility to get some nasty weather so all racers have to deploy and show the storm sails to the organization.




As you can see many boats have the trysail without been set on a mast rail (probably they don't have a rail for the main and one for the storm sail).

The question: Does that works that way? As someone use or saw one used like that?
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Old 31-10-2012, 12:57   #2
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

Do these sails have a wire Luff?
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Old 31-10-2012, 12:59   #3
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

AFAIK storm trisails are set like a jib with the clew secured to the deck. They don't set to the main boom. Have never had the pleasure of setting one in bad weather. Seems for most people, the trisail is most often used to stop rolling in ghosting conditions.

Looks like a couple of the trisails are set flying without the leech in a mast track. Don't think those will work at all if that is truly how they will be set in strong winds. Assume those sails hoisted without using a mast track are just because the skippers didn't want to take the time to set them using the normal mainsail track. That is not the best setup as freeing the mainsail from the track and threading the trisail in in strong winds is going to take major effort.
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Old 31-10-2012, 13:00   #4
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

Yes. A mast track is not an imperative. The trysail may have a heavy bolt rope or wire sewn into the luff of the sail. This would allow the luff to be heavily tensioned to reduce sag. Either way, trysails should be set low with the clew close to the rail. Not what I'm seeing in the photo. Of course they are just displaying required gear.
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Old 31-10-2012, 14:41   #5
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

I have never seen nor heard of a trisail being set with a free luff. Every instance I have ever seen / heard of, the trisail luff either (i) runs up the mainsail luff track, or (ii) has its own dedicated track (this latter option being preferable).
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Old 31-10-2012, 14:58   #6
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
I have never seen nor heard of a trisail being set with a free luff. Every instance I have ever seen / heard of, the trisail luff either (i) runs up the mainsail luff track, or (ii) has its own dedicated track (this latter option being preferable).
+1. Mine is stacked in a magazine attached in the 4 o'clock position on the mast, and feeds onto the track thru a hinged gate.
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Old 31-10-2012, 15:55   #7
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

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Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Do these sails have a wire Luff?
I have no idea, but that it seems not be the case, I mean they are not tight
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:14   #8
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

I'm not sure what the original wquestion really was.. "rail"? But a trysail without a track sounds like trouble to me.....
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:25   #9
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

The boats in the photo are all different but the sails seem to the same/similar and although hard to see there appears to be no slides on any of the luffs.
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:34   #10
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

The trysail only goes halfway up the mast, the halyard goes to the top. I don't see anyway you could ever tension that enough to not go banging around the mast or sag off to be unusable. My guess as others have said is proof you have the sails, not proof that you have the ability to rig them properly.


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Old 31-10-2012, 16:58   #11
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

I don't think those folks have done it that way because it's ideal--only because that's the cheapest way to get it done. The rule says you've got to have one on board. It doesn't say that it has to sail properly.

Better to have a proper bolt-rope sewn into the sail so that it works with the luff track. But that's going to involve labor costs, isn't it?
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Old 31-10-2012, 17:34   #12
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

I guess I'm one of those who has the equipment, but doesn't really know how to rig it. I've got a separate track on the main for my trysail, and have run it up to see that the track works smoothly. However, I don't really know where I should attach the sheet. (I've got a cabin top traveler for the main). I've done a quick search but can't seem to come up with anything other than the obvious fact that it is rigged loose-footed.
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Old 31-10-2012, 18:41   #13
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tar34 View Post
Yes. A mast track is not an imperative. The trysail may have a heavy bolt rope or wire sewn into the luff of the sail. This would allow the luff to be heavily tensioned to reduce sag. ...

I searched on the net and I could not find any relevant information.

I know that can be made with the storm jib, in fact I have seen them (I mean a storm jib with an incorporated stay) but I never saw a trysail with a wire. Have you seen one of those?
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Old 31-10-2012, 19:06   #14
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

So is the question as per OP related to their staysails or rather to their trysails?

I think flying a trysail without attaching it to the mast is stupid. A staysail can be flown without a forestay if it has the luff built for that and if all adjacent deck and mast hardware are designed to fly it this way.

BTW I would actually prefer a staysail with hanks. Just imagine the mess if you are trying to lower a free-luff staysail in 40 knots (and +) of wind.

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Old 31-10-2012, 23:49   #15
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Re: Staysail without a mast rail

Gary H, there are 2 ways of rigging a trysail(probably more) that seem to work. The first way (which I dont like) is to sheet it to the end of the boom and use the regular main sheet to control it. It will set better than if it is sheeted to the quarters, but you still have the possibility of a gybe or the boom hitting a crew member. The more common method is to sheet it like a jib, to the stern quarters thru blocks that are very strong. This eliminates the danger of the boom doing damage in a gybe, but it wont set as well as the first option, and it adds the danger of a block exploding and hurting a crew member. Your boat having the second track rather than a loose luff trysail is in better shape than most of the boats in that photo. I dont think any sail other than a light air sail should have a loose luff. I personally dont like trysails, but if you have one, set it up a few times at the dock so that if you ever do need it, you will know how. __Good Luck._____Grant.
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