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Old 13-08-2015, 14:09   #106
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Re: Staysail Advice

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
We carried 3 sizes of stay sails . . . A "max size" one, an ORC sized one, and a tiny one. We switched from max size to ORC at about 40 kts. This ability to fly exactly the right sail is one of two reasons we had hank on stay sails and not roller furling. The other reason is it allows the stay to be removable (brought back to the mast) which greatly improves tacking efficiency.
I believe ProFurl if not other mfgs. make a roller furler that is actually detachable/removable. I looked into it at one point for my removable inner forestay but ultimately decided to stick with my hank-on storm staysail & (what I call) my 'storm jib' (probably more accurately called a tiny staysail as you suggest) that is deployed on this same inner forestay. Pros & cons of both but, like you, I like the option of different sizes of heavy weather sails. Before going offshore I always deploy the inner stay, partially hank the staysail on, and leave the rest of the sail in the bag securely lashed so it minimizes time spent forward should the staysail need to be deployed. If sailing inland waters with a favorable forecast, I have the option of flying the 130% genoa w/o the hassle of tacking it through a permanently attached inner forestay. So far it's all worked as advertised.

I have never tried using my staysail simultaneous with my 110% Yankee jib as discussed in the thread linked above. I guess that would make the boat a 'double-headsailed sloop' according to some. Between the relatively forward position of the mast, the heavier cloth & relatively small size of the staysail, along with my winch configuration, it always seemed to me that the boat was designed more as a sloop rig with good heavy weather options vs. what is commonly referred to as a 'cutter.' I suppose I should try it one of these days and see if I pick up that 1/2 knot people write about. My guess is that it's not as efficient as running the Yankee alone, at least with my rig configuration.
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Old 13-08-2015, 15:43   #107
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Re: Staysail Advice

None of mine were furling staysails. I just didn't want more weight aloft. I had a special bag, sail stayed hanked on and ready with sheets run back... or just in bag.. Just slipped the bag off, attached the halyard and up it went.
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Old 18-08-2015, 07:49   #108
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Re: Staysail Advice

We discovered another issue which probably contributed significantly to the staysail and headsail issues. Our backstay was way too loose. I took up over two inches of slack the other day. For the first time in three years, we encountered another Oyster 53, one which had a hydraulic backstay tensioner with a gauge, so I was able to compare ours, which was significantly loose.. We then encountered five Oysters including two other 53 footers in the same off the beaten path anchorage.
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Old 18-08-2015, 10:27   #109
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Re: Staysail Advice

^^ do you have check stays (some 53's do and some dont)? That's the correct tool to adjust staysail tension.

The back stay directly adjusts head stay, but is pretty inefficient for staysail stay. If you have the baby stay, the backstay would be really inefficient, unless you readjusted essentially the whole rig tune.

Rig tune and tension is a bit of a black art on cruising boats. I would guess 85% are not correctly tuned. But most are crippled by more fundamental issues . . . So it usually does not matter much.
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Old 18-08-2015, 16:52   #110
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Re: Staysail Advice

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Of course, which is why I suggested to Kenomac over 50 posts ago that he might consider investing in a decent pair of kneepads… ;-)

The snazzy ones from Spinlock I used to illustrate that post, however, was probably a poor recommendation for most cruisers… Probably better to go with something similar like the ones from Gill, that can easily be put on when wearing boots and bulkier foul weather gear…

I always pack mine on powerboat deliveries, as well, they come in very handy when crawling around in engine rooms, etc… ;-)

Kneepads are part of my general kit for deliveries and all other contract work. Also liking the Gill kit. I rate Gill stuff often higher than the by and large more expensive kit.
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Old 18-08-2015, 23:54   #111
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Re: Staysail Advice

I've had knee pads onboard for all the deck work that I've done.
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Old 19-08-2015, 00:03   #112
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Re: Staysail Advice

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I've had knee pads onboard for all the deck work that I've done.
Quite right, too. Anything you can do to cosset/save your knees is a great thing. [don't ask.]

Ann
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Old 19-08-2015, 00:07   #113
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Re: Staysail Advice

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Quite right, too. Anything you can do to cosset/save your knees is a great thing. [don't ask.]

Ann
I rarely knee, so the knee pads don't get used much. After many years of cycling, the I'm a good squatter.
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Old 20-08-2015, 20:25   #114
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Re: Staysail Advice

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
^^ do you have check stays (some 53's do and some dont)? That's the correct tool to adjust staysail tension.

The back stay directly adjusts head stay, but is pretty inefficient for staysail stay. If you have the baby stay, the backstay would be really inefficient, unless you readjusted essentially the whole rig tune.

Rig tune and tension is a bit of a black art on cruising boats. I would guess 85% are not correctly tuned. But most are crippled by more fundamental issues . . . So it usually does not matter much.
After I replaced my sprit I moved the attachment point a bit, maybe 1 1/2". I called in Walden Rigging to have them do a rigging survey. They measured tension in all stays and did much more. They suggested a number of improvements and adjustments.

Frankly I thought the job they did, the effort they put into the survey, and the benefits were are very worth while. It was a good bit of real insurance.


BUT.....all that said, I would be interested in what you think are the more common "fundamental issues." Just wondering how many of them I have.
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Old 21-08-2015, 04:00   #115
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Re: Staysail Advice

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BUT.....all that said, I would be interested in what you think are the more common "fundamental issues." Just wondering how many of them I have.
Might be a good topic for its own thread . . . But crappy sails, dirty bottom, fixed prop, all sorts of excess windage (from multiple furling sails to arches, etc), weight in the ends (and excess weight generally), shallow keels . . . . . It all contributes to cruising boats often (for example) pointing 10 - 15 degrees lower (upwind) than they "should" be able to.
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