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Old 11-06-2014, 18:15   #31
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I have owned and restored a C-25 fixed keel for just over a year. I love the boat, I bought it as a starter and have used it to learn a lot. I have replaced all of the windows, a rotten bulkhead, rewired, installed a new head, new stereo, new magma grill, and installed a new chart plotter. To me it's not just about sailing it's about learning the boat and its systems as well.

I can tell you 1st hand anything smaller than a 25' would be extremely cramped and make weekends aboard long and long weekends feel like weeks. The truth is yes you will sail but the majority of your time will be spent sitting either docked or anchored enjoying what amenities your vessel has.

I am 90% done with the modernization and restoration of my C-25 and now it is being sold at a profit (which I didn't ecpect) and I am moving up to a C-30.

Outboards are easy. They are easily removed and dropped off at the shop saving you BIG $$$ in travel fees by your mechanic. I have the boat slipped in ft. Myers and have my repairs done at My Mechanic in Jacksonville which is something I could not have done if I would have had an in board.

I would definitely advise anyone to buy a C-25 for their 1st boat because they are easy to fix and maintain and are far easier to sell when and if you want to part with it.
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Old 15-06-2014, 06:05   #32
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

Today we're looking at 2001 West Wight Potter 19'. $7000. Is that price in the ball park? Says it's in excellent shape...Looked yesterday at an Aquarius 21' 1973. Price was good, but the swing keel looked pretty rusty, and I figured it would be a custom job to replace.
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Old 15-06-2014, 06:56   #33
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showsea View Post
I have owned and restored a C-25 fixed keel for just over a year. I love the boat, I bought it as a starter and have used it to learn a lot. I have replaced all of the windows, a rotten bulkhead, rewired, installed a new head, new stereo, new magma grill, and installed a new chart plotter. To me it's not just about sailing it's about learning the boat and its systems as well.

<snip>

I am 90% done with the modernization and restoration of my C-25 and now it is being sold at a profit (which I didn't ecpect) and I am moving up to a C-30.
Do you have a blog or any pics of your work. I am in the middle of a haulout that has become a refit and am looking for ideas on small boat mods.

Ripped the interior out today...
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Old 15-06-2014, 08:23   #34
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

Do you have a blog or any pics of your work. I am in the middle of a haulout that has become a refit and am looking for ideas on small boat mods.

Ripped the interior out today...
I took some pics but not any step by step pics. I guess I should have but most of the work I did was so time limited that it was an after thought.

The best way I found to go about it was one project at a time. I have seen others completely gut their vessels and most of them became stuck and didn't finish, and the ones that did ended up sinking a whole lot of $$$$ into a vessel that they would never be able to recover.

Study the boat that you're going to buy. Figure out what the high and low values are and try to finish your project in the middle of that. Just like real property there are improvements that could be made that are super adequacys. For instance if you buy a house in the hood it doesn't make sense to put a $40k kitchen in a $30k market.



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Old 15-06-2014, 11:24   #35
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

I had a Seafarer 24 for 12 years I loved that boat .. McCurdy and Rhodes designers...
The Catalina 25 or Seafarer would be a great choice.. Seafarer may just be cheeper in price due to few know them very well built boats.. and they sail great..
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Old 15-06-2014, 16:06   #36
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnypm View Post
Today we're looking at 2001 West Wight Potter 19'. $7000. Is that price in the ball park? Says it's in excellent shape...Looked yesterday at an Aquarius 21' 1973. Price was good, but the swing keel looked pretty rusty, and I figured it would be a custom job to replace.
Our club has owned and sailed a WWP 19 for many years. They are light, easily trailerable and have all the things you need to spend a weekend. However, for me, at 6' and gaining in age it's hard to find a good space to sleep aboard without moving a lot of gear here and there. Very cramped with the daggerboard up or all the wire coming down from the blocks for lifting the daggerboard. They have an iron 300lb daggerboard that needs maintenance just like many centerboard boats. I'm not certain why they hold their value so high. I owned and sailed the heck out of a Catalina 22 which had more space and sailed as well or better and was as well constructed.

I saw one on craigslist in the Portland area recently for much less than 7K.

kind regards,
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Old 15-06-2014, 18:09   #37
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showsea View Post
I took some pics but not any step by step pics. I guess I should have but most of the work I did was so time limited that it was an after thought.

The best way I found to go about it was one project at a time. I have seen others completely gut their vessels and most of them became stuck and didn't finish, and the ones that did ended up sinking a whole lot of $$$$ into a vessel that they would never be able to recover.

Study the boat that you're going to buy. Figure out what the high and low values are and try to finish your project in the middle of that. Just like real property there are improvements that could be made that are super adequacys. For instance if you buy a house in the hood it doesn't make sense to put a $40k kitchen in a $30k market.



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Nice project. I wish I was still flexible enough to work off the ground - LOL.

I think we've got it right and agree with Skipper John. A 22-26 foot boat is the perfect start to sailing and maintaining boats.

Projects don't have to be overwhelming and mistakes are cheap.

Systems are relatively easy but challenging and relevant enough to carry over to an eventual bigger boat.

I personally would lean towards the bigger end if weekend live-aboard is planned. My boat was originally designed for 5 people - Ha, ha!

I am redoing it to make it great for 2 with 3 in a pinch. My "weekender"
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Old 15-06-2014, 18:59   #38
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Nice project. I wish I was still flexible enough to work off the ground - LOL.

I think we've got it right and agree with Skipper John. A 22-26 foot boat is the perfect start to sailing and maintaining boats.

Projects don't have to be overwhelming and mistakes are cheap.

Systems are relatively easy but challenging and relevant enough to carry over to an eventual bigger boat.

I personally would lean towards the bigger end if weekend live-aboard is planned. My boat was originally designed for 5 people - Ha, ha!

I am redoing it to make it great for 2 with 3 in a pinch. My "weekender"
I'm only flexible when it pays me to be lol! But thanks. I completely agree, the key to me is to buy the least amount of project you can afford. C-27's btw are bigger but the 25's are faster especially the tall rig.
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Old 15-06-2014, 22:24   #39
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

Look, IMO for a "starter boat" it really does not matter if it is a Cat 22, 25 or 27. You will learn a lot, and then you will want to move on to BIB boats... trust me on that!

So, again IMO the important thing is to get a boat that is essentially ready to sail, 'cause at that stage of your learning curve you will have your hands full just sailing. Not a good time for refit projects... The other thing is to buy a boat that is popular in your area so that:

There are other owners to learn from.
There is likely a local one-design fleet to race against (and that is a VERY informative means of learning how to get the most from your boat, once you have mastered the basics).
And when it is time to move on, it will be easy to sell your now outgrown boat.

So, do a little research locally and don't obsess about whether you should have a specific size and design, no matter what enthusiastic owners tell you!

Oh... FWIW, our real starter boat was a 15 foot daysailer dinghy, followed by a Catalina 22. Kept her for 7 years, learned a whole lot, won (and lost) some races, did some coastal cruising around San Francisco and in the PNW. By the time I could afford to move up I was experientially ready.

Cheers,

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Old 15-06-2014, 22:41   #40
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

The 2001 19' West Wight Potter we looked at has never been used with the sails, which are still in plastic, as is the rudder. (An impulse buy for them from someone who won it.) It has a 5 hp Nissan outboard, which they've used to take it out a few times. It looks like the keel has never been lowered. My only worry is that all the mast parts are not accounted for, as the ex-wife owner is selling and is about as newbie as me. (She first said the outboard motor was 1500hp) Also not sure if the jib and main sail would be packaged in the same plastic? Hull looks decent for 13 yrs old, but needs cleaned up and wood parts are weathered.
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Old 15-06-2014, 23:20   #41
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

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Look, IMO for a "starter boat" it really does not matter if it is a Cat 22, 25 or 27. You will learn a lot, and then you will want to move on to BIB boats... trust me on that!

So, again IMO the important thing is to get a boat that is essentially ready to sail, 'cause at that stage of your learning curve you will have your hands full just sailing. Not a good time for refit projects... The other thing is to buy a boat that is popular in your area so that:
Your post is spot on. I have had my starter boat for almost 8 years.

I definitely have BIB fever but I know exactly where I am headed so don't want to trade now for another "interim" boat. I will keep Relax Lah until my final boat.

In regards to "project boat" - I agree. Don't get one. But in regards to starter boat, the reason I don't recommend dinghy's are a few...

- A friend was having a hard time getting his wife into sailing. He had taken her dinghy sailing and was encouraging her to take a dinghy course. She hated getting wet and didn't like dinghy sailing. I took them out for a wine and cheese cruise. Shortly thereafter they bought a keelboat.

- A keelboat will have some systems. They will break down. Fixing and maintaining these is good prep for bigger boats as long as it isnt' a project boat that gets in the way of learning to sail.

- Once you get to 25 feet (my limit) you can start comfortably doing weekender trips for 2 people.

- One can learn how to sail just fine on a 22-27 foot keelboat.

Oh, and the reason "all" the "top" sailors started in dinghy's? Cuz they started when they were 5 years old - LOL...

Nothing wrong with dinghy sailing up until about 25 years old - then go to keelboats - like the "top" sailors do...
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Old 16-06-2014, 12:54   #42
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

OK, so I offered $5000 plus a week at our beach house for the 19' West Wight Potter. If she takes the offer, I'll be asking for help about the mast and rigging the sail. I did find the manual online, so that should help. In the mean time I'm still looking at others. Thanks again for all the advice!
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Old 16-06-2014, 14:30   #43
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OK, so I offered $5000 plus a week at our beach house for the 19' West Wight Potter. If she takes the offer, I'll be asking for help about the mast and rigging the sail. I did find the manual online, so that should help. In the mean time I'm still looking at others. Thanks again for all the advice!
Good Luck!
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Old 17-06-2014, 16:58   #44
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Re: "Starter" Sailboat

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@Boulter. Now that Sandpiper 565 looks like what I had in mind to start. Being a newbie, I'm not sure how the keels work. Is the Sandpiper's cranked out after being launched, or mid launch? Also wondering about that on the Catalina 22 with the swing keel. I'll find out soon enough looking, just don't want to come across as a total idiot.

I see the Sandpiper was made in Canada, and you're right that I'm not finding any around here. I really would like a trailerable boat, until we find out if we get hooked enough to justify the cost of a slip. I would be crazy enough to trailer one from Canada, as I have been in Ontario, and have friends in Michigan.

Do you ever snowbird it down here? We're an easy golf cart ride to the beach, and only a couple of miles to a couple of boat ramps.
There are a few sandpaper cal 20s and Catalina 22s around Michigan and most are 1000 to 2500. As you go bigger it is harder to trailer but there are a ton of shoal draft and swing keel boats that are easy to transport and set up and you could spend a weekend no problem. The potter is a great boat also. I think they are a little high on price but they sell fast and for good money. I think the Catalina 22 or 25 is the most bang for the buck. But the important thing is to sail. Start with something and after a while you will know more about what you like and need. I have yet to see a boat I do not like. Any day on the water is a good day.

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Old 17-06-2014, 17:17   #45
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Well said campuscab
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