Spear Guns, Cross Bows, and Composite Bows?

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Bash

legalities aside, within the diving community at large spearfishing on scuba is not considered to be sporting. We all did it thirty years ago, but these days we know better.

I don't really mind doing it to be honest. I like scuba diving, and if I can grab some dinner off the bottom so much the better. Fishing with lines is a pain in the ass for me and I'm not that good at it. I mean really, if I get a bass with a line for dinner or a bass with a speargun, it's still the same fish.

It's not like I'm down there with a machine gun mowing stuff down with reckless abandon. Most the hunters I know disregard scuba because it's a "bubble machine" that scares away the fish, not because of any ethics. They want to get more and bigger fish. If scuba worked better, they'd use scuba.

[Dulcesuenos]

Wow, bash I guess you are a purist who only hunts with a sling or a club?
Make your arrows out of wood, and points from flint or other rocks?
Also what "diving communities" are you speaking of as I am involved in Several diving communities and no one disrespects spearing either on scuba or breath hold..
Comparing scuba to dynamite fishing? Really?
You think Spearos on scuba taking large breeding stocks of fish aren't ok but it is if you free dive?
I guess long liners arent the problem at all with massive amounts of bottom fish stocks being depleted due to indiscriminate bycatch. Its been people on scuba all along.

[four winds]

I just bought first fishing rod, at 53 years of age. I probably will starve.

Now, if I could shoot it with my AK, ............

[downunder]

Originally Posted by pressuredrop

good point saucy, i also believe that in the bahamas you are not allowed to use any kind of spear (pole or sling) while scuba diving

Or assisted air supply(Hookar)

Also on the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park area in Australia.

Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority :: Zoning

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Bash

Groupers grow at a rate of approximately 1 kg per year. If a diver swims up to a 40 kg grouper, even on scuba, it will not swim away. It will just sit there and watch you pull the trigger.

I'd have a difficulty time respecting anyone who would advocate spearfishing using scuba, even if it's just to put dinner on the plate. Any divers not capable of procuring dinner by spearfishing while free diving ought to settle on rice and beans until their skills develop.

I agree with you absolutely. Any divers not capable of procuring dinner by spearfishing while free diving ought to settle on rice and beans until their skills develop. Absolutly no challenge on SCUBA.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by downunder

I agree with you absolutely. Any divers not capable of procuring dinner by spearfishing while free diving ought to settle on rice and beans until their skills develop. Absolutly no challenge on SCUBA.

Some interesting posts on this aspect of "challenge". I would have thought the concept of "challenge" would only pertain to fishing as a "sport". As far as the gathering of a meal goes, why should this be only OK if there is a "challenge" aspect.

One eats a fish, what difference does it matter if the said fish was caught on a line, a net, a spear, with SCUBA or even out of a can. No challenge for most of us to open a can of tuna - so perhaps we should look down on those who feed their family with canned tuna.

As to sport, well it is an unequal challenge right from the start, the animal is always going to lose when a human is hurting it for "sport", it is just that some sportsman are willing to give the animal slightly better odds by foregoing some of the human technology.

Written by someone who used to hunt.

[downunder]

Problem if authorities allow people to spear on SCUBA we may get to the med situation outlined earlier.

If I am not up to the challenge and can't catch a meal freediving do I strap on a tank. Never have and never will. Have to go hungry or resort to a line. Long time since i had a feed of WA Duhfish - great eating fish but a difficult fish to hunt freediving - would be a breeze on SCUBA.

I enjoy eating fish and I presume as most do.

Seems it is legal in WA. Just don't try spearing on SCUBA on Great Barrier Reef. My view.

Spearfishing(hunting fish) on SCUBA to me is similar to fishing with nets vs lines.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by downunder

Problem if authorities allow people to spear on SCUBA we may get to the med situation outlined earlier.

If I am not up to the challenge and can't catch a meal freediving do I strap on a tank. Never have and never will. Have to go hungry or resort to a line. Long time since i had a feed of WA Duhfish - great eating fish but a difficult fish to hunt freediving - would be a breeze on SCUBA.

I enjoy eating fish and I presume as most do.

Seems it is legal in WA. Just don't try spearing on SCUBA on Great Barrier Reef. My view.

Spearfishing(hunting fish) on SCUBA to me is similar to fishing with nets vs lines.

I have to agree with what you post considering that most (all?) of us fish recreationally rather than to simply survive.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Funnily enough I don't travel the world killing anything for fun and therefore treat animals and fish in pretty much exactly the same way as humans. Apart from that I have never eaten a human

But I will admit that I don't always hunt my Cheeseburgers down using a Davy Crockett hat and my bare hands. Which to some may be considered "Unsporting"

Whilst we are waving Moral superiorities at each other - I don't see how putting someone else's lunch in my car is sustainable. or polite.

[Blue Crab]

I don't think subsistance fishermen/divers are depleting the oceans of fish.

In 30' of water on a reef, all I need is a polespear. At 130' on a wreck here on the banks almost guarantees an encounter with a large shark who wants the speared fish and you've got a two min ascent. Don't see many freedivers offshore.

[downunder]

Humans eating to prevent starvation is always going to be a problem regardless of our preferences,

A great piece of meat, a tasty fish, some delicous fruit or vegetables or even a Cheesburger need to come from somewhere.

With our Crocodile Dundee hats down here perhaps we arent as evolved to assume all food comes from a drive through or supermarket.

-----------and we also don't eat humans either

The establishment of Marine national Parkes in our neck of the woods has been great and in some areas so extensive that many are protesting the restrictions to fishing.

Planned marine parks necessary: scientists - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[thinwater]

As long as the fast food lane carries a fish sandwich I can't take fine points too seriously. The recreational catch + commercial catch = total catch. I've got to believe the recreational fisherman wastes less than the commercial industry (spoilage, by-catch, dredge and net dangae to seafloor).

I generall, I limit my meat intake more than I used to. I simply feel better with more grain and vegies and less meat--it isn't a sustainability thing. With that in mind, spread out with rice and noodles,a little fish goes a long, long way.

Simply be efficient with what you keep.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Wow, bash I guess you are a purist who only hunts with a sling or a club?
Make your arrows out of wood, and points from flint or other rocks?
Also what "diving communities" are you speaking of as I am involved in Several diving communities and no one disrespects spearing either on scuba or breath hold..
Comparing scuba to dynamite fishing? Really?
You think Spearos on scuba taking large breeding stocks of fish aren't ok but it is if you free dive?
I guess long liners arent the problem at all with massive amounts of bottom fish stocks being depleted due to indiscriminate bycatch. Its been people on scuba all along.

As to being a purist, I suppose I am. As to the diving communities with whom I've been affiliated, I am a retired scuba instructor, having attained the Master Instructor level with PADI and having served as an Instructor Trainer with NAUI. I worked my way through grad school teaching scuba, serving for ten years as the Director of Education for one of the largest dive shops on the west coast. I have logged more than 5,000 instructional dives.

As to your other questions: I don't make my arrows out of wood, but I do own a custom spear gun built of mahogany. It's the only one of its type ever built, to specifications I'd provided. It's an absolute work of art, and I'd be embarrassed to be seen with it while on scuba, because only a diver seriously deficient of skills would stoop to such a practice.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Bash

As to being a purist, I suppose I am. As to the diving communities with whom I've been affiliated, I am a retired scuba instructor, having attained the Master Instructor level with PADI and having served as an Instructor Trainer with NAUI. I worked my way through grad school teaching scuba, serving for ten years as the Director of Education for one of the largest dive shops on the west coast. I have logged more than 5,000 instructional dives.

As to your other questions: I don't make my arrows out of wood, but I do own a custom spear gun built of mahogany. It's the only one of its type ever built, to specifications I'd provided. It's an absolute work of art, and I'd be embarrassed to be seen with it while on scuba, because only a diver seriously deficient of skills would stoop to such a practice.

deficient of skills?...or may have respiratory or physical skills problems...maybe over the age of seventy/eighty...etc..etc...etc..lots of GOOD reasons..and all better than buying the seafood in a store....

What a narrow view of the world.....

[Bash]

Originally Posted by psneeld

deficient of skills?...or may have respiratory or physical skills problems...maybe over the age of seventy/eighty...etc..etc...etc..lots of GOOD reasons..and all better than buying the seafood in a store....

What a narrow view of the world.....

Oh. Ouch. I've been subjected to the roll-eyes emoticon!

It's not a narrow view of the world, it's a narrow view of those who engage in spearfishing via scuba. Honestly, I don't think we're talking about a lot of octogenarians here. And people with respiratory problems probably shouldn't be diving on compressed air anyway. Back when I was teaching, people with severe asthma or emphysema couldn't get a physician's clearance to dive under any conditions, let alone spearfish.

The fact remains that coral reefs worldwide are seriously depleted of larger gamefish. The culprit here is spearfishing with scuba. Regardless of where you dive, it has become rare to see any gamefish over 10 kg on coral reefs. This isn't because of factory fishing, or deepwater trawling, or long-lining, et cetera. It's because of spearfishing.

A skilled hunter with a full tank of air can unravel a reef's food chain for decades within the scope of a single dive. Ask anyone who started diving before the scuba boom in the early eighties what the reefs were like before being inundated by people who were suddenly able to hunt far deeper than they could free dive.