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Old 21-03-2016, 08:34   #31
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

Decent boats but not really similar to the full keel Southern Cross that the OP is interested in.
The Southern Cross 31 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
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Old 21-03-2016, 10:24   #32
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
Decent boats but not really similar to the full keel Southern Cross that the OP is interested in.
The Southern Cross 31 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
My point exactly...the OP is not going to head off to the Caribbean or any bluewater sailing any time soon...he wants to learn to sail first...so why is he looking at a boat built to circumnavigate?

My suggestion is to open up his search criteria to inexpensive boats that would be fun to learn on, and not drain his wallet. As he gains experience, he'll know what he wants, and know it when he sees it.

Taking that idea a step further...you don't have to buy a boat to go sailing. Its great fun to be crew. You sail, and the skipper/owner worries about all the costs, maintenance, repairs, dockage, etc. I recently sold my boat, partly due to lack of crew...but that doesn't mean I've given up sailing!

Which brings me to my next point.... If anyone needs crew for a great lakes delivery, and would like a surly old man to come along and hold one end of a rope, I'm available. No, really, I am.
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Old 21-03-2016, 10:25   #33
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Originally Posted by Xthewater View Post
"A few of the bolts leaking" indicates to me there could be core saturation in the cabin ceiling and usually resulting in core rot depending on how long this has been going on. Best to get a surveyor on that as it can be very expensive to repair. (...)
Yep.

Much depends on what the core material is. If the core is structural foam (Nomex/Dynacell style) then most of the time water travels along the offending bolt and quickly finds its way out. Often, this leads to little if any damage.

Balsa can be either good or bad - it is no problem if the leak is new. It can be very bad if the leak has been there for 'ages'. Balsa is very soft BUT the grain is 'across' the deck - not very prone to water penetration.

Plywood can be very bad - esp cheap (non-marine quality) plywood (uncommon in quality boats but common in cheaply built ones) - some of the veneers have grain oriented so that any water that enters may travel long long way inside and the wood will get heavy and rotten.

So, with any deck leak - first make sure what the core material is, then measure how extensive, if any, the damage.

Most grp boats do have some deck leaks. Few develop very bad deck core problems.

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Old 21-03-2016, 10:41   #34
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
IMO the notion that a novice can't learn to sail in a long-keeled double-ender simply doesn't hold water. Such a notion fails to recognize that what you do skippering a racer is vastly different from what you do skippering a cruiser. I have taught many people to sail, ab initio, in a LARGE double-ender. I will concede that the finer points of sail trimming you learn more quickly in a dinghy than in a cruiser, but for the man who wants to go cruising I think that is largely irrelevant. You don't have to know it all by the day after tomorrow!

(...)
Trente,

I think the notion is not that one cannot. At least originally, the notion was that one is better off learning to sail in a relatively more responsive craft. And there was not, originally, any mention of learning in a racing boat. Off course many small and responsive boats are racing boats but there are more of them that are not.

You can learn cruising in any boat but you can only learn how to sail well in a boat that sails well.

I am in a situation similar to yours - that I teach people sailing. I found it that people who learn to sail in big keel boats never develop the boat and wind feel like developed by people who start the more demanding craft up first.

So we have somewhat split, but not opposite, views here. I think maybe we should learn sailing in the lighter boats and learn cruising in the bigger keel boats. Without insisting on which part comes up first. As long as it comes at all.

Cheers,
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Old 21-03-2016, 11:38   #35
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

Barnakiel:

I don't even think we have "split views" :-). Like you, I believe that you learn to SAIL (as a subset of learning to Cruise) in a small boat far better than in a big one. If I still had the alacrity required, and if there were a competitive racing fleet of them in these waters, I'd like to get myself an Osprey :-0)

Hartley Boats: Osprey

Or better still, a Wayfarer:

Hartley Boats: Wayfarer

But 12K quid??? That's rather more than I paid for TrentePieds :-)!

Back in King Arfur's time when my Alma Mater was brand new, I started it's sailing
club. Bought one frozen snot Enterprise, and built two plywood ones in my basement. Taught I don't know how many university students to sail in that lovely water called English Bay. When the local on-shore wind had risen to 15 or 20 at 1400 hours, I'd duck into a splendid little hole-in-the-wall called Caulfield Cove and let the green drain outta their faces. For years, therefore, among a certain sector of the Vancouver waterfront, that lovely little spot was known as "Pukey Cove" :-)

I have given voice on many occasions to my reverence for old Willy Occam. And provided he is given his due, I think most newbies is better off FINANCIALLY by buying only once in a life time. But clearly that means that newbs should stay in the 30 - 35 foot range, and be content, UNLESS the intention is to go blue water. Then the selection criteria are SUBSTANTIALLY different from those that come into play when the boat is, really, only for play.

I have also alluded in passing to the fact that TrentePieds would NOT have been my choice if I had wanted to run away to sea for my own sake, and alone. Had that been the case, I should have chosen something more like Lizzy Belle - perhaps a King's Cruiser. Or if, God forbid, I shoulda been daft enuff to go blue water, something like an Astrid, or in the more modern genre a Fast Passage 39.

But TrentePieds became a love-object for MyBeloved the moment she saw her. MB hasn't a clue about yacht design, and therefore she hasn't a clue about what design parameters are critical to her intended use of the boat. That is of small import to me. I have enuff confidence in my skippering ability, even at this end of my life, that I can keep TP and MB safe enuff in this 'ere oversized bathtub we call the Salish Sea, even if TP isn't much of a dipsey vessel. I get my reward when we come out of Porlier Pass into the Straits in a goodish Norwester and MB, beginning her trick, hunched over the wheel and grinning with delight, keeps asking "Is this sea-state 5, yet? Is it? Is it?" :-)

TrentePieds
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Old 21-03-2016, 14:01   #36
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

I'm also firmly in the camp that learning to sail should be done in a small boat. A small boat's immediate reaction to what you do, whether wrong or right, will ingrain the fundamentals of sailing. Plus there's nothing like ending up in the drink a couple of times to learn a healthy respect for what can go wrong.
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Old 21-03-2016, 14:17   #37
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pirate Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

This is akin to a Mono vs Multi argument.. Big vs Small..
I learnt this way and everyone who did not will never be a good sailor.. he asked about the boat.. not how to learn to sail or a fin keel is better.
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Old 21-03-2016, 17:54   #38
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
I'm also firmly in the camp that learning to sail should be done in a small boat. A small boat's immediate reaction to what you do, whether wrong or right, will ingrain the fundamentals of sailing. Plus there's nothing like ending up in the drink a couple of times to learn a healthy respect for what can go wrong.
Interestingly, our present boat is only 26' so ... we are sorta kinda permanently in the learning sailing mode. Yes, we do have some 3000 lbs of cast iron down there but to call our little ship 'forgiving' would be a huge overstatement.

And BTW the boat in your avatar is absolutely stunning! Is she what you are in now?

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Old 21-03-2016, 19:51   #39
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Yep.

Much depends on what the core material is. If the core is structural foam (Nomex/Dynacell style) then most of the time water travels along the offending bolt and quickly finds its way out. Often, this leads to little if any damage.

Balsa can be either good or bad - it is no problem if the leak is new. It can be very bad if the leak has been there for 'ages'. Balsa is very soft BUT the grain is 'across' the deck - not very prone to water penetration.

Plywood can be very bad - esp cheap (non-marine quality) plywood (uncommon in quality boats but common in cheaply built ones) - some of the veneers have grain oriented so that any water that enters may travel long long way inside and the wood will get heavy and rotten.

So, with any deck leak - first make sure what the core material is, then measure how extensive, if any, the damage.

Most grp boats do have some deck leaks. Few develop very bad deck core problems.

b.
Yes, IF I got this boat, or any boat I am spending any kind of "big money on (anything over 5 - 10K) I will get a good survey. As far as the leaks, there were zero signs of water stains or soft spots on the deck or in the ceiling. So, my guess is it hasn't been there too long - no idea what kind of damage is there or what kind of moisture is in there (didn't have a moisture meter). This boat was completely over hauled, I am guessing 5 years ago? Not sure, but looks pretty amazing. Really...if any of you would have been there, based on all other other boats I have looked at, you would have been pretty impressed.
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Old 21-03-2016, 19:53   #40
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

Someone on Cruisers Forum said that learning to sail is not rocket science and you could learn to sail in a one day session. I disagree.

I think learning to sail safe and well takes a lifetime but that isn't the point. If you want to learn sea sense and be wind sensitive and learn interactive sail to wind characteristics then you are much better off learning to sail in the smallest craft possible. You can't even fathom the many nuances of rules of the road in a one day session so it takes much longer to learn to safely sail than a day on the water no matter what boat you are in. I've met many cruisers that started in large boats and really have never mastered using their sails. One sailing friend always ran his engine while "sailing" just in case. That's the way he learned. He didn't know any better. A wonderful guy but a terrible sailor. He learned on a 46 foot boat and successfully did the Carib, Canal and South Pacific.
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Old 21-03-2016, 19:56   #41
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Join a sailing club before you buy a boat. Learn to sail first, buy a boat second.
Trust me you will be happy you did!
Have tired this as well, I was the awkward guy that stayed on the dock cause no one needed/wanted novice crew.
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Old 21-03-2016, 20:00   #42
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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If your ultimate goal is to go island hopping in the Caribbean, and maybe a longer bluewater passage, then the SC31 is a good choice. But there is good reason those thin plastic, wide beam, coastal cruisers are so popular...tons of room below, spacious cockpits, modern amenities, pretty fast under sail...every boat is a compromise. In fact, my last boat was named Compromise! LOL!

Please let us know what happens. You have a reasonable budget. As an alternative, you might consider a 198x Hunter 34. Same price (or less) and a lot of space and comforts. Might be worth a look just for the knowledge.
Yup, reading your mind, I have looked at quite a few Hunters in the 34 foot range...That just lead me to a few 36ft Beneteaus lol those are nice and $$$$. LOL Thanks again everyone for all the great advice.
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Old 21-03-2016, 20:01   #43
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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I hope the OP read this.






Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
Yup, I am
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Old 21-03-2016, 20:03   #44
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Its all about the price.

If you buy a boat for very little money, its a lot easier to sell, unless you are trying to make a big profit.

I've had very good luck selling my boats (8 so far) because I bought low, so could sell low too. I've sold every boat within a few weeks. Sure, I likely could have made a few more dollars by holding out...but the cost of continued ownership would likely eaten that profit, and more. And why not give the new owner a break, like I got. No one should spoil that great feeling of getting a new boat by asking too much $.

There's plenty of $ in the world, but only so many boats.

Back to the SC31 asking $27,000. He's asking too much, otherwise it would have sold long ago. Is he just fishing? If he wants to sell, he'll take a reasonable offer.
He is an older gentleman that can no longer sail due to health reasons. I am not real sure he even sailed the boat as much as he motored it....Just my assessment. The sheets look pretty dirty....as having been sitting for a few years.
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Old 21-03-2016, 20:44   #45
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Re: Southern Cross 31 Purchase?

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Someone on Cruisers Forum said that learning to sail is not rocket science and you could learn to sail in a one day session. I disagree.

I think learning to sail safe and well takes a lifetime but that isn't the point. If you want to learn sea sense and be wind sensitive and learn interactive sail to wind characteristics then you are much better off learning to sail in the smallest craft possible. You can't even fathom the many nuances of rules of the road in a one day session so it takes much longer to learn to safely sail than a day on the water no matter what boat you are in. I've met many cruisers that started in large boats and really have never mastered using their sails. One sailing friend always ran his engine while "sailing" just in case. That's the way he learned. He didn't know any better. A wonderful guy but a terrible sailor. He learned on a 46 foot boat and successfully did the Carib, Canal and South Pacific.
My friend is going to take me out on the hobie cat I can rent here locally for next to nothing this week. I have watched many many videos on learning to sail so I am hoping this goes well. I also have another friend that has "offered" to take me out on his 23ft boat. So, hopefully, this will all go a long way for me and the wife to learn to sail.
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