Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-12-2012, 07:27   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
tartansail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tiverton, RI, USA
Boat: ex-Tartan 40
Posts: 614
Images: 1
Re: son says radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
We find that our success in fog requires one person fulltime assigned to the radar screen interpreting targets and another at the helm. For us, cruising in fog is an intensive edurance task.
Agree with this in a place like coastal Maine. We had to do an eight hour run from SW Harbor to Tenants Harbor in fog a couple of years ago. The person on the helm was responsible for ATN's, the CP and avoiding lobster pots. The other was on radar, worked the horn and was responsible for ID'ing other craft. With visibility about two boat lengths, it was, indeed, full-time concentration for both of us. It also speaks to the importance of learning to use radar before you need it. Fortunately, Maine also has some spectacularly beautiful days which are a great time to match targets to eyeballs.

I spent several years windsurfing in SF Bay and, before that, surfing in SoCal. Fog in SF is the real deal, but it doesn't compare to what the OP will deal with on a regular basis as he sails out of Blue Hill Bay. The SoCal marine layer is not part of the same conversation. The other challenge with sailing in Maine is that the season is very short. Fog is a major part of at least half of the best times to be on the water. Without radar, you're shortening an already short season or taking on significant risk.
__________________

__________________
- David
S/V Sapphire Tartan 40 #71

tartansail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 07:37   #32
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: son says radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
I agree completely! Fog can be a dangerous place and sometimes unavoidable in the area(s) he indicated. How much money is your life worth - is a valid question everyone needs to answer for themselves.

If you can afford to own a sailboat in Maine you can afford to also own radar. It is a "choice" and some people will opt for the new interior cushions, the fancy bottom job to go faster, the TV, cockpit cushions or the iPad linked to the gizmodowhatchamcalit. From a safety perspective in MAINE I'd get the radar before the other superfluous stuff..

Plotters have given many boaters balls as big as grapefruits and radar in Maine has become your only defense. 20 years ago in Maine most all boats would be doing head way speed in the Pea Soup. Now it is not out of the ordinary to see a 30' Sea Ray guided only by a plotter doing 30+ knots in 100' of visibility...

This is a regular scene now days in Maine. No radar reflector, no running lights, not monitoring VHF 16 or any other channel for that matter and not blowing fog signals.. This boat was blasting along at 20+ knots in thick fog with only a GPS... Idiots abound it is up to you to do the best you can to protect yourself...


AIS in Maine is still pretty useless as there are very, very few boats TXing it. Unless you are in the "approaches" it offers very little info on this coast compared to radar. AIS is good but I would invest in radar well before AIS as it relates to Maine at this point in time.

As for radar systems I just got to see, touch and feel the brand new Lowrance HDS7.. Very, very, very, very cool and hands down will be the best bang for the buck in a plotter/radar. I installed a bunch of e7's etc. last summer but this summer I suspect my customers will pounce the new Lowrance stuff.... All I can say about it is WOW, and I am not easily impressed....
__________________

__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 09:08   #33
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,577
Re: son says radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
I have often found that the charts were off a bit coming into an inlet or marina and the radar is dead on every time-sometimes you only have one shot at coming thru, and the radar makes the difference if you can see or not at night
Plotters show you what was supposed to be there when they made the chart.

Radar shows you what is there right now.

It's a pertinent difference.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 13:00   #34
Registered User
 
rocksculpter's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lopez Is, Washington
Boat: Norsea 27
Posts: 66
Re: Son Says Radar

Well, I'm a budget boater. In the Pacific Northwest you get fog. Almost getting run down by an oil tanker in the dark, he was running illegally without the required tug assist, and sailing in a gale, with fog and into an unknown port pushed me into spending the $1200.

I was amazed that even a low end radar can help you get around. The ability to judge how fast a freighter is coming down on you, even in the daylight, is comforting. Unless the sea state is really bad I can easily pick up logs, kayakers and mooring buoys. Navigating between islands with hidden reefs I can tell exactly how I'm situated in the channel.

It does take practice to interpret what you see so I highly recommend spending time in good visibility testing what you see. For those worried about power consumption the new FM radars are great.

Barry
__________________
rocksculpter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 14:28   #35
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: Son Says Radar

I don't think I even turned my radar onto active last year. But I'm still glad I have it.

But the last time I used it in an area that I really wanted it the biggest dangers turned ut to be fishing boats that weren't showing up on radar (the same ones that were not running their lights, making any horn signals, or even responding to the horn signals I was doing).

If you don't currently have radar or a plotter be sure to get a system that will overlay the 2.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 14:50   #36
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Son Says Radar

Sailed for 40 years without and couldn't understand the need of one. Have since sailed the last 10 years with one and can't understand how we got along for such a long while without (just good luck I s'pose). Considering how, relatively, inexpensive a good set is, unless one is sailing a very small, energy challanged, yacht, why even consider doing without?

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 15:29   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Son Says Radar

Don't know what your neck of the woods is like but here in Australia but vessel movements like roads have increased massively in recent years compared with the previous 5/10/20 years.

Radar in combination with chartplotters enables a check reference to approach an anchorage at night in safety.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 18:49   #38
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Son Says Radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Sailed for 40 years without and couldn't understand the need of one. Have since sailed the last 10 years with one and can't understand how we got along for such a long while without .....................
I like this statement! It seems to happen with many devices.
We sailed for 20years without a depthsounder,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed for 20 years without refrigeration,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed for 20 years without GPS,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed 30 years without radar,- 'can't do without now!
We've sailed over 40 years without interfaced instruments and a "chartplotter",- I bet if I take that on, then I won't be able to do without!
I love to take on new things and find them so useful!
......and then there's the other side. I used to have an RDF that I couldn't do without! Thanks, HyLyte.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 19:06   #39
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: Son Says Radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJH View Post
Radar is a very useful tool, but you need to take the time to learn how to use it properly. It is useful for navigating, checking the weather (squall activity) and for monitoring other vessels in your vicinity. Learn how to use it in good weather and it will serve you well when the visibility is reduced in fog or rain. I would put radar above AIS in the equipment list.
Totally agree! The value of radar is only as good as the operator

When Marine Radar became commercially available after WW II they thought this would be the end of collisions at Sea.
Now they have a whole new category of incidents called Ď Radar Assisted Collisionsí
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 19:15   #40
Registered User
 
saw77's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Boat: Catalina 34
Posts: 70
Re: Son Says Radar

I also sail in Maine, the boat I just bought has radar and I'm very happy it does. As others have noted, the fog in Maine has a life of its own.
__________________
- Steve
saw77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 19:24   #41
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Re: Son Says Radar

Like Don I have not used my radar in several years. But, that's only because I have not been out in conditions where it was really needed. But, I am certainly glad it is on board and would not hesitate to fire it up when the fog rolls in:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: A FOGGY MORNING ON THE MOORING
I also installed an AIS transponder this year which I will use much more than my radar. In fact it will be on during every sail. It does not take the place of the radar but, is another tool the works well with it.
Your son is right. In Maine with it's frequent fog conditions I would go with radar first and AIS second.
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2012, 19:31   #42
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: son says radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by tartansail View Post
We've sailed in Maine with and without radar. Without, it wasn't uncommon to be stuck in harbor for several days. With radar, we've made several trips that, while not fun, were safer and less stressful. Between the lobster boats, other pleasure craft and the barges in tow, there's plenty going on that isn't on the chartplotter. Just being able to localize the sound of an engine and track the source is a big stress reducer. We'll be up in Blue Hill Bay this summer and we'll see you. Hope you see us as well.
Exactly!
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 06:24   #43
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Son Says Radar

A sail boat without AIS is like a speed bump to a ship.

It depends on the type of cruising you aredoung and the loacl conditions.

In 40 years on the water i have never sailed in fog except for whole days of the stuff on the ICW in Florida.

If one is only sailing in foggy areas you may come to a different decision, but if just transiting through fog areas and cruising world wide, as i do, the AIS is the most important.

Currently i am at sea near Key West and i have 21 AIS targets largest range 100 nms, 70, 3x 40, 2x30, and the rest gradually closer. Radar cant do that.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 12:20   #44
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,140
Re: Son Says Radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Currently i am at sea near Key West and i have 21 AIS targets largest range 100 nms, 70, 3x 40, 2x30, and the rest gradually closer. Radar cant do that.

But it might show targets that don't have an AIS transponder. Look out!! What's that 100 ton bucket of rust behind me doing?
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2012, 18:01   #45
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Son Says Radar

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
I like this statement! It seems to happen with many devices....
I love to take on new things and find them so useful!
......and then there's the other side. I used to have an RDF that I couldn't do without! Thanks, HyLyte.
You're Welcome..

Funny RDF Story (for some).

We have a late 70's era Seafix RDF that kind of looks like a lunch-box on a pistol grip handle with a hand bearing compass sitting on top and a pair of earphones that we thought was the penultimate “high technology” gear when we got it. At one point, in the time before we had Radar and before we had fully embraced GPS, we were fog-bound near the mouth of the northwest entry channel to our harbor. As there was an RDF transmitting station at the foot of the channel, one could limber up one's RDF and sail “down the beam”, into the harbor in a pea-soup fog, ticking off channel marks as one passed each in turn. While hove too at the channel mouth, taking the first swing with the RDF, a small motor cruiser passed us at dead slow, close abeam. We waved to the helmsman as he passed and were surprised when he suddenly slowed, reversed course and idled up to our windward rail. “Has there been some kind of accident?” he questioned, “Is everything okay?” “Why yes, I think so” I responded “everything's good with us, why do you ask?” “Well” he answered “I saw you using that Gieger Counter thing and I was worried that there might have been a problem at Diablo Canyon I needed to know about, so I thought I’d better ask!” “Ah… Nope. Nobody glowing hereabouts that we know of” I responded. “Gee thanks” he sighed, “that's a relief”, and with that, sped of into the gloom. “Do you believe that?” I asked my tired, chilled, damp, (much) better half. “At this point I'd believe anything that would get us anchored and a bowel of hot soup. Get moving Buster!” And so we did, faithfully following the Null on our “Geiger Counter”.

And we still have the old girl today (the Geiger Counter that is). And, she still works.

FWIW...
__________________

__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
radar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Furuno 1715 Radar Unit Review kirkalittle Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 15 28-10-2014 08:51
Radar Troubleshooting? Dockhead Marine Electronics 9 06-05-2012 17:28
For Sale: Giveaway Price - Raymarine Dual Station 72mi Open Array Colour Radar Krawdad Classifieds Archive 2 02-02-2012 20:37
Need help with radar options doug1957 Marine Electronics 3 15-12-2011 05:28
Collision Avoidance in Mexico: AIS or Radar or ? no_bad_days Pacific & South China Sea 27 19-09-2011 16:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.