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Old 06-06-2015, 06:04   #91
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
I think boat design has gone decidedly down hill after Carl Alberg, William Garden, Bill Crealock, Robert Perry and others who drew boats that looked like boats not spaceships.


S/V B'Shert

Since Bob Perry still designs boats and they are "modern" looking I wonder he thinks.


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Old 06-06-2015, 06:34   #92
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

Like I said earlier, American yacht designers and builders are mired in the 1970's and 1980's designing for a clientele who by now mostly resides 6ft under. Nobody under the age of 80 has any interest in their designs. Hence, the huge popularity in comparison of the European designers and builders such as Beneteau, Jeaneau... etc, etc. Exciting new designs instead of force feeding the buying public the same old crap.

It was the Beneteau 58 in 2009 which first sparked our interest in a larger boat, my wife and I loved the possibilities that boat offered. Really, can anyone name one U.S. manufacturer that's come up with something new and innovative in the past thirty years?

The wife has to like the looks of the boat, if not.... you're not going to be buying a boat... period. Ugly doesn't sell for that very reason. Seems to me like the only thing the U.S. makers want to do is continue to put different shades of lipstick on the same old pigs.

See for yourself at the next boat show. You'll find the European designed boats crawling with interested buyers, then take a trip over to Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina etc., the sales people look like the guy in the old Maytag repairman commercials... "The loneliest guy in town."

Good looks sell.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:23   #93
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

In the water. Bill Dixon-1991. Operator said 39,000 lbs. Lead Sheel Keel.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:31   #94
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

I like the looks of the Taswell which is very practical for a cruising couple, but... Today's shopping public at the boat shows will be drawn to the newer sleeker designs with the "IKEA" interiors.

In today's market.. The Taswell would never sell as a NEW boat.

I'm 58.

Good looks will alway trump practicality for today's buyers.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:41   #95
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Since Bob Perry still designs boats and they are "modern" looking I wonder he thinks.


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http://www.pacificseacraft.com/asset...ri-bws_139.pdf

Here's Bob's latest work..traditional....go Bob ! Check out the spade rudder.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:58   #96
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
http://www.pacificseacraft.com/asset...ri-bws_139.pdf

Here's Bob's latest work..traditional....go Bob ! Check out the spade rudder.
That is beyond bad... the 'Perry Edsel'... with alfresco dining in the centre cockpit and an aft cockpit where the crew can hide from the weather and not even a vague idea of of what is happening to the sails..
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:05   #97
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
http://www.pacificseacraft.com/asset...ri-bws_139.pdf

Here's Bob's latest work..traditional....go Bob ! Check out the spade rudder.
We may have a new definition of fugly, looks like Perry drew inspiration from the fine lines of the Shannon 54DS. He'll probably be able sell one more if the buyer is vision impaired.

The American designers remind me of scenes from the Brady Bunch movie where the father keeps bringing home archetctural design models, and each one looks exactly like his 1960's house... and he can't understand why nobody is interested....
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:26   #98
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

We all buy boats for different reasons.

I like Catamarans for the space, stability, privacy, ease of use and a host of other reasons. Once its established to me, that the steering position and controls are to my liking, the sail management system is good, I then turn to the interior design. Bright, free air flow, beds that have side access and not squashed into the space, good storage, nice head and shower, good galley- only then do I turn to the looks of the vessel, and will choose one that is most appealing BUT- with the caveat that all the above mentioned essentials are fulfilled first. It cuts out a lot of indecision knowing what you want.

Looking at a monohull, I would prefer enclosed wheelhouse type shelter. Why would I want to be swaddled in wet gear for hours at a time when I dont need to be?

So yes......... Modern design is attractive, but it has to meet prior requirements or else it is not a package I would want.

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Old 07-06-2015, 09:14   #99
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
That is beyond bad... the 'Perry Edsel'... with alfresco dining in the centre cockpit and an aft cockpit where the crew can hide from the weather and not even a vague idea of of what is happening to the sails..
This is not to dispute what you wrote. I am simply adding a little more to the discussion and thought you and others might find it interesting.
______________

In the previously linked page about the "new" Bob Perry design, I saw this in Perry's own comments on his design (these are his words):
"The most unique feature of this big, fast ketch is the dual cockpit configuration."

______________

I also noticed the size of the mizzen mast and boom. They seem large (large mizzen). In Perry's remarks he wrote that the client likes ketches and wanted a ketch. He also stated that he drew the mizzen to be larger than average because he wants it to drive the boat. etc.

As I recall reading on another sailing forum last year, where Bob Perry participates, he stated that he does not think schooners (and as I recall ketches were included too) are practical and he tried to talk some client from choosing a schooner design, against the wishes of the client.

To my eyes, this boat looks like it is pretty close to a schooner (though we cannot see the full size of the sail plan in the illustrations on the article).
______________

Also, at first glance the new Perry boat (with the two cockpits) reminded me of a Bowman 57 design from the 1970s.

The most famous of those was "Cloud Nine" with Roger Swanson as the owner/skipper.

For those who don't recognize those names, Roger Swanson was a much admired sailor (recently deceased) and his boat was considered one of the most noteworthy cruising boats.

He sailed Cloud Nine for 217,000 nautical miles over 30 years of voyaging, from the Arctic to Antarctica.

In 2007, Cloud Nine and Swanson became the first American sailboat to complete the Northwest Passage.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:40   #100
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

Steady,

As you pointed out, it looks like Perry simply redesigned a 45 year old Bowman, by sticking a large mizzen and ugly doghouse on it... then called it his newest design. The doghouse looks home made.

Not to be confused with the photo on this post.

We've wandered quite far from beauty, so I thought to add another picture to remind everyone that beautiful, fully functional boats are currently being produced. Just... not in America.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:53   #101
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Steady,

As you pointed out, it looks like Perry simply redesigned a 45 year old Bowman, by sticking a large mizzen and ugly doghouse on it... then called it his newest design. The doghouse looks home made.

Not to be confused with the photo on this post.

We've wandered quite far from beauty, so I thought to add another picture to remind everyone that beautiful, fully functional boats are currently being produced. Just... not in America.
LOL only.........

I dont think its beautiful.

Never mind. Good job we all dont like the same things.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:09   #102
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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We all buy boats for different reasons.

I like Catamarans for the space, stability, privacy, ease of use and a host of other reasons. Once its established to me, that the steering position and controls are to my liking, the sail management system is good, I then turn to the interior design. Bright, free air flow, beds that have side access and not squashed into the space, good storage, nice head and shower, good galley- only then do I turn to the looks of the vessel, and will choose one that is most appealing BUT- with the caveat that all the above mentioned essentials are fulfilled first. It cuts out a lot of indecision knowing what you want.

Looking at a monohull, I would prefer enclosed wheelhouse type shelter. Why would I want to be swaddled in wet gear for hours at a time when I dont need to be?

So yes......... Modern design is attractive, but it has to meet prior requirements or else it is not a package I would want.

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All good points. Design has to have a strong functional side otherwise its simply not a good design. I look at some of the new eyebrow boats and try to imagine working on those funky sloped surfaces in rough weather, not functional. I look at the poor storage below because the builder/designer has chosen to maximize the interior feel and keep the price down, makes it a weekender at best. One could spend lots of time and build quite a list of stuff that doesn't work well in many of the new boat designs but as Ken points out people/sailors these days seem to have their focus elsewhere.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:29   #103
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Steady,

As you pointed out, it looks like Perry simply redesigned a 45 year old Bowman, by sticking a large mizzen and ugly doghouse on it... then called it his newest design. The doghouse looks home made.

Not to be confused with the photo on this post.

We've wandered quite far from beauty, so I thought to add another picture to remind everyone that beautiful, fully functional boats are currently being produced. Just... not in America.
Hi Kenomac,

I am truly enjoying seeing the new "euro" styling boats, because they ARE so different from the older styled yachts seen in the USA, generally, or uncommon here.

I appreciate it when any forum members post photos of these boats, as I have not seen some before and find them interesting to see.

Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:33   #104
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

Let's see, Hylas, Morris, J Boats, Ted Hood, Seward, Hinckley ... compared to Beneteau. Seriously? I think I'll stick with American designers.
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Old 07-06-2015, 13:02   #105
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Re: Some yachts are plain ugly and some beautiful, why and does it matter?

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Let's see, Hylas, Morris, J Boats, Ted Hood, Seward, Hinckley ... compared to Beneteau. Seriously? I think I'll stick with American designers.
The question was basically, Why do looks matter? Well, you can add up the entire annual production coming out of Hylas, Morris, Ted Hood, Seaward and Hinckley (are they still in business?), Hunter and Island Packet and the total amount won't even equal the weekly output from one major European manufacturer like Beneteau, Jeaneau, Bavaria, Hanse etc.

Looks matter. I'm not suggesting that the Beneteau is built like a Morris, but the Morris would be very much at home in 1985, whereas the Beneteau would look like an alien spaceship in 1985. Today's buyers want style first, not dated looks and utility.

I left out J Boats because the primary focus of the brand is racing. But if some argue that the a few of the American boats mentioned are mostly semi custom, well then I can point to Swan, Oyster, Najad (if they're still in business) and say these builders produce many more yachts per year than their American counterparts. I think Oyster manufacturers more 575 and 88 foot yachts per year than the total annual Morris production.
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