Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-03-2011, 21:15   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

I believe that international maritime law needs to be changed. Under exceptional circumstances (transiting the Indian Ocean, for example), commercial vessels should be allowed to carry heavily armed security detachments from private security firms. This would aid in deterring these low-lifes from attempting their crimes. I also agree with a previous poster in that other countries need to step up to the plate and provide more naval support in the region.

Attached is a photo of some of the 61 Somali pirates that were just captured some 500 nm west of India by the Indian Coast Guard. This is how I want to see all these pirate scumbags end up. Unfortunately, poverty and lawlessness make it easy to recruit additional pirate replacements. And even more sadly, it is possible that these young men don't even realize that what they are doing is a "crime." It is likely that they are brainwashed by their controlers that they are just taking from the rich to put food in the mouths of their children, collecting a fair tax, bla bla bla. They might even be using religious justification (jihadist).

We can only pray for the Danish family and the other victims of high seas crimes throughout the world.

Sven
s/v Norsewind
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	somalipirates.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	67.6 KB
ID:	25091  
__________________

__________________
norsewind is offline   Reply
Old 14-03-2011, 21:26   #32
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress View Post
....If you take away the tankers from the piracy stats, then I believe there are, sadly, as many attacks on small yachts off Thailand and Philippines. It is hard to syphon the figures. But Somalian attacks currently seem to receive more press attention than attacks elsewhere.
I was not aware that the Philippines had so many pirate attacks on yachts as near Somalia.


Where did you find that info?
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 05:06   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Look at how horribly undernourished those guys are in the picture above.
It shows the other side of the story. "Suck is life."
__________________
kenny chaos is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 05:32   #34
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

I see 2 skinny people in the picture and they look to be maybe kids. I wouldn't say they are horribly thin.

But if they were that isn't reason for us to accept being attacked by pirates.

I hope we get the danger level in the area back to normal because Ireally hoped to sail the Red Sea.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 05:34   #35
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Quote:
I believe that international maritime law needs to be changed. Under exceptional circumstances (transiting the Indian Ocean, for example), commercial vessels should be allowed to carry heavily armed security detachments from private security firms. This would aid in deterring these low-lifes from attempting their crimes. I also agree with a previous poster in that other countries need to step up to the plate and provide more naval support in the region.
Firstly Norsewind, The US is in effect one of the smallest players in the GofA, Most major maritime nations, including the EU, China , Indiam russia and others are present in significant force. If you look at pirates captured, the US Navy hardly figures at all.

Secondly private commercial vessles now regulary hire armed protection. I have a commercial captian friend, who have transisted the area, protected by a private ex-Spetnaz force. Also the Russian Navy has been chartered to provide close support to commercial vessels. Theres no need for any changes to martime law.


Piracy in Somalia, is big business, EU NAVFOR has estimated that its costs $50,000 to bring in a ship thats pays $9 million in ransome. With those margins this problem will not end soon. There is even a "pirate " stock exchange operating that allows "financiers" to fund missions in return. These guys have access to all the latest equipment and are regulary interviewed by the worlds news agencies.
In fact they recently announced a "sale", explaining that they were dropping the cost of ramsons in an effort to "move" some stock, !!. Really its true.

The locals, now see this as a legimate business, they get a cut too. Its long since moved on from the original fishermans complaints, Up and down the coast of Somalia, there are hostage boats. in fact one of the porblems is they are running out of space to berth this stuff and the manpowered needed to guard the hostages.

Its a fatal mistake to charactise these people as idiots. They have shown that they can take on the worlds navies, primarily becuase we have rules of engagement that are designed firstly to protect innocent crews. The pirates know that.

BTW, Religion has nothing to do with it, The somalian problem has nothing to do with Jihadism, Muslim,Christan and dissenter ships are targetted.

Until we are preapred to sacrifice, or potentially sacrifice, innocent crew, we cannot change the rules of engagement. Thats a debate that needs to had, are the lives of inncocent crew potentially forfeit in order to wipe out the scurge of pirarcy. In many conflicts decisions have gone either way, for example in Palestine innocents suffered in order to deter combatents, whereas for example in Northern Ireland, wholesale military action was not taken, in order to protect the lives of ordinary citizens . ( mods- this is not a political statement merely an observation as its compares to GofA).

I think we are now close to the case where the lives of the hostages will have to be compromised in order to end the scurge. Its a position I am uncomfortable with, deeply so, sitting here in my armchair, but I am beginning to see that there will be no other solution.

The head of EU NAVFOR has stated that with the present RoE, they will merely supress this problem, not remove it. Also since the pirates has access to increasing large and self sufficient "motherships", they are expanding their areas of operations, We could be dealing with the whole Indian Ocean soon.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 20:20   #36
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Guys..... Please refrain from political/religious posts! Thanks
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 20:45   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Sometimes to explain a viewpoint the politics and religion needs to be referred to without a post being political or religious.

As adults we should be able to handle it. In reality dealing with the Priate problem will be a political decision. I could be wrong but havn't yet seen a solution which won't reguire politics or guns.

All we want as crusiers is to be able to traverse the area in safety. At present we cannot.

Goboatingnow your analysis is appreciated.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 20:51   #38
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Sometimes to explain a viewpoint the politics and religion needs to be referred to without a post being political or religious.

As adults we should be able to handle it. In reality dealing with the Priate problem will be a political decision. I could be wrong but havn't yet seen a solution which won't reguire politics or guns.

All we want as crusiers is to be able to traverse the area in safety. At present we cannot.

Goboatingnow your analysis is appreciated.
The operative word is "SHOULD".... In practice it rarely goes well in a forum, hence the rule prohibiting it. The rule is not optional or debatable.
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 21:38   #39
Registered User
 
Butler's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Boat: Pearson 281
Posts: 678
Images: 18
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Goboatingnow... a wonderfully lucid, articulate and level headed post on a difficult problem. Very informative. Thanks.
__________________
Butler is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 00:14   #40
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
Pirate Map

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I was not aware that the Philippines had so many pirate attacks on yachts as near Somalia.


Where did you find that info?
This is a link I originally followed from here somewhere:Piracy Map 2008

The somali figures for commercial vessels are most certainly higher than elsewhere last year, but when you click on each marker to syphon out the yacht attacks... well, the attacks are mostly on commercial ships.

I was surprised to find an attack listed on a fishing vessel close to me that I hadn't heard about in the news. No wonder the CG are always watching us and joining us when we do our work near Irani/Iraqi waters (no international waters here, no matter what the Americans say....)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pirates 2009.JPG
Views:	110
Size:	34.0 KB
ID:	25138  
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 00:42   #41
Registered User
 
Jon Hacking's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising Southern Indonesia, heading for peninsular Malaysia
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 523
Send a message via Skype™ to Jon Hacking
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Saucy, your piracy map link (icc-ccs.org) is what we use to track piracy. It's about a week behind, but it all gets posted there eventually.

I had not heard of problems in the Phillipines. The South China Sea has long been a problem but it's easy to avoid if you stay close to Malaysian Borneo. Also, the Malaysian Navy has cleaned up its side of the Malacca Straits. There still seem to be problems on the Sumatra side, but several hundred cruisers go up & down the straits every year without problems.

I think the main piracy problems for cruisers are the N Indian Ocean (driven by Somalia) & a bit around eastern Venezuela (which is more theft with only occasional personal injury). And as many have learned, if you don't hoist your dinghy out of the water every night, you'll lose your outboard, just about anywhere.
__________________
-- Jon Hacking s/v Ocelot
Jon Hacking is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 03:06   #42
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: Pirate Map

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress View Post
This is a link I originally followed from here somewhere:Piracy Map 2008
Thanks for that link. Very interesting but when I study the 2010 map for the Philippines, I see 3 reported piracy attacks at anchor in manila harbor and one at anchor in Batangas

If you read the details, seems the boardingís were very amateurish, focused on getting deck supplies from the Bosonís locker or easy to steal life rafts.

More opportunistic thievery in the wee hours from local waterfront ratsÖ..rather than a pirate attack.

I have seen that kind of thing in many ports and in places like Seattle or Vancouver they donít call it piracy, since stealth rather than force is used.

I have a dive resort just across from Batangas and I can assure you, while always vigilant to stealing, we donít worry about pirates.

Perhaps I am missing something but I think it is important to make a distinction.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 03:15   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Pirate Map

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Thanks for that link. Very interesting but when I study the 2010 map for the Philippines, I see 3 reported piracy attacks at anchor in manila harbor and one at anchor in Batangas

If you read the details, seems the boardingís were very amateurish, focused on getting deck supplies from the Bosonís locker or easy to steal life rafts.

More opportunistic thievery in the wee hours from local waterfront ratsÖ..rather than a pirate attack.

I have seen that kind of thing in many ports and in places like Seattle or Vancouver they donít call it piracy, since stealth rather than force is used.

I have a dive resort just across from Batangas and I can assure you, while always vigilant to stealing, we donít worry about pirates.

Perhaps I am missing something but I think it is important to make a distinction.
Agreed Pelagic,

doesn't sound like piracy to me. If one simply call piracy a crime on water it inflates the piracy that worries cruisers.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 03:20   #44
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Good points. However, if you do a google search (sorry, I don't have time now), you WILL find reports of murders onboard in Asia during these attacks. Piracy is not solely confined to kidnapping!
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply
Old 16-03-2011, 03:51   #45
Registered User
 
Searanger50's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cruising Italy & Greece
Boat: Moody 36 (1981)
Posts: 77
Images: 5
Re: Somali Coast - Stay Away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
I understand your sentiments. But does it always have to be the US? There are many other countries that can handle this. I for one would like to take a break from my country again being the worlds cop both militarily and financially.

I agree. The problem is not that of the USA but one of the whole free world but something must be done. As I have said elsewhere it is ludicrus that a few organised criminals can control the high seas in the 21st Century. Perhaps someone needs to go after the people who are financing this. It isn't a few Somali fishermen anymore.
__________________

__________________
Kevin
Searanger50 is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Piracy on the Somali Coast GavinC Off Topic Forum 58 20-12-2010 12:27



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.