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Old 05-12-2009, 14:01   #46
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Seems to me a combination of Convoys for cruisers and non-commercial "slow Boats" and the use of Mercinaries on Commercial vessels to protect them would work.. sounds like an excellent business opportunity for the likes of "Blackwater" et al... I would bet just 2-3 of those well armed guys on a super tanker would probably be enough... When it gets harder to steal the money than to earn it, they will stop.

I actually don't buy that these are just "hopeless" folks on a desperate last leg. I believe most small boys aspire to become Pirates to get the nice girls, to have the nice gold jewery... if you offered them a farming gig for even a fair wage they would laugh and the girls would not be nearly as impressed with a "farm boy"... no you have to take the glamor out of the equation.

Just my humble opinion...
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Old 05-12-2009, 15:13   #47
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Wouldn't it be easier to have a multi-national force patrol the somali coastline instead ? stop and search boat traffic for arms with smaller, armed patrol boats that stay in 1 specific area and get to know who the operators are? Small rewards for information, etc. Assess fees to shipping co's transiting area to help defray costs? Work a deal with the (government?) with the agreement that the fishing rights off their coasts will be protected from the foreign fishing vessels who ignore somali's right to exclusive use of their own waters?
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Old 05-12-2009, 16:14   #48
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As for the second part of the quote...many might say that we do tolerate much worse.
I have to be one of those that think we sometimes tolerate worse. By that standard New Yorker's tolerated Bernie Madoff and the bankers stealing much more then the pirates have even thought about. I don't think we can really hold them responsible.

I suspect most of the Somalia people have no idea who is the pirate and who is the fisherman just like we don't know which of the boats that goes out of our harbors are the drug smugglers and gun runners and which are the legimate cigarette boat owners.

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Old 06-12-2009, 18:35   #49
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"the Halo 2 "I got a big gun that will solve all my problems" that far too many seem to cling to."
Folks cling to it because it often works. Case in point, it works for the pirates.

The Law of Club and Fang isn't the only way, but over the millenia it sure has worked for a lot of folks.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:31   #50
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"the Halo 2 "I got a big gun that will solve all my problems" that far too many seem to cling to."
Folks cling to it because it often works. Case in point, it works for the pirates.

and why stop at pirates? If someone robs a 7/11 we should blast them to pieces. Armed robbery, it's the same as piracy. And car jackers - blow their heads off.... and the guy who stole my mountain bike....where's my gun?...


Jeez....

You know that most countries in the so called civilised world consider that capital punishment is...well....uncivilised. There are a few exceptions....
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:50   #51
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AH, bewitched, you totally misread me. The OP's comment was that "far too many people ...cling to" the law of club and fang. And all I am saying is they cling to it because IT WORKS FOR THEM.

Who are you or I to ask them to change the rules they play by? When someone forces you to play, it is only polite to use their own rules against them. Throw 'em in a box until their own family can raise ten million dollars. Turnabout IS fair play.

"Please sir, would you build a nice port and bring cruise ship tourists to throw gobs of money to my little town?" might work for them too. I don't think they've tried that yet.

But when you speak of "civilized"....once someone threatens my life with a weapon, they've just given up all of their rights. If ensuring my safety from them means putting them in a nice comfy jail with cable tv and all the amenities and an 85% recidivism rate, that's not ensuring my safety. That's the difference between civilization, and falling off the evolutionary curve. By all means, you go reform 'em and save 'em. And if you survive, come back and let us all know the magic formula that works 100% of the time.
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Old 10-12-2009, 13:54   #52
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Another ransom paid; another vessel freed...
BBC News - Somali pirates free Greek ship with Ukrainian crew
This is a lucritive business and an endless revolving door though which flows... Cash. Surely NOT the way to deal with piracy. Anything less than a full out assault on this would be laughable if the problem weren't so serious. Every time a ransom is paid, the activity is sanctioned.
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Old 10-12-2009, 15:34   #53
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Anything less than a full out assault on this would be laughable if the problem weren't so serious. Every time a ransom is paid, the activity is sanctioned.
One thing seems pretty certain, if we just start shooting first, then it's very likely that the pirates will respond in like kind. Instead of 100% of hostages eventually being reunited with their families, a whole lot of body bags will be sent to the region for dead hostages AND pirates. Zero dead hostages is better than 50 dead hostages no matter what math is used.

Seems govts of the world, insurance companies, and the families of those captured agree that loss of a few bucks is better than loss of life - in the grand scheme of things. I've yet to hear of a hostages family call for upping the violence. But I've heard a lot of folks on the sidelines, with nothing to lose, clamor for increasing the violence.

In any event, commiting a large military force to the region costs a lot of money. The tea partiers would never stand for the govt dumping even more money down the toilet, so safe to say the status quo will remain at least until the 2012 election cycle - before it becomes a convenient soundbite for someone to use in a campaign...
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Old 10-12-2009, 19:00   #54
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Is it too early to romanticize them?



We drink and we pillage and we do what we please
We get all that we want for free
We値l kick your ass
And rape your lass
Somalian pirates we
So with a yo ho ho
And with a yee hee hee
We take to the African sea
We値l brave the squalls
And bust your balls
Somalian pirates we

We left our homes and we left our mothers
To go on a pillaging spree
We値l cut off your ears
And break your toes
And make you drink our pee
And if you sail into our waters
You best hear this decree
We値l take your boat
Set your ass afloat
Somalian pirates we
With a yo ho ho (yo ho ho)
And a tricky lah-tee do (tricky lah-tee do)
We値l shoot you in the face with glee
Then we値l cut off your cock
And feed it to a croc
Somalian pirates we
Somalian pirates we
Somalian pirates we
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Old 10-12-2009, 19:29   #55
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One thing seems pretty certain, if we just start shooting first, then it's very likely that the pirates will respond in like kind. Instead of 100% of hostages eventually being reunited with their families, a whole lot of body bags will be sent to the region for dead hostages AND pirates. Zero dead hostages is better than 50 dead hostages no matter what math is used...
The word assault has a fairly broad meaning and is not restricted to meaning the use of weapons etc to invade and beat the **** of someone. It means (and I meant) that this problem needs to be addressed with great seriousness. If we are accepting of endlessly paying ransoms, continuing to watch vessels of all sizes seized, and continuing to do absolutely nothing about it, then this is a non-topic, it's a topic in which there is nothing to discuss. The easier softer way, and the one that exposes none of the passagemakers to danger from this source is to put the pirates on the UN payroll and make sure they get a regular cheque (in return for the promise to stop pirating). Hell, they're just poor fishermen who have had their fishing grounds pilfered and have no way to earn a living, in a country without a government, so some would say, and that may well be true. But does that authorize piracy? So put them on the payroll. Sometimes change cannot come without spilling some blood - that's the way it's always been and 2009-2010 is no different. Although maybe we can swap cash for blood before the piracy is committed.
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Old 10-12-2009, 19:49   #56
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The issue is that we are always seeking a civilized solution to an uncivilized practice.

On balance being civilized works. What is frustrating is that while we ponder what to do the cash flows in and the weapon strength of the opponent gets stronger. Then when the "civilized people" try to intervene they too often have underestimated the strength of the opponent and we get mired in a game of attrition.

The internal warlord politics of Somalia are not unknown to us - anyone remember Mogadishu? I also get concerned about using the wrong tool for the job.

Political Solution - when talking and time are on your side
Military Solution - When you wish to completely vanquish an opponent
Avoidance solution - When you really don't give a rats behind about the problem

Over time we have often used a military solution as a political tool. It never works.

My solution for Somali pirates is the avoidance solution - For the very small number of people affected I have no interest in spending billinos of tax dollars on a military solution. For private yachting my advice would and is stay away or know the risks. For commercial shipping my advice is that you make money shipping, know the risks and understand you own security options.
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Old 10-12-2009, 19:55   #57
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Hard to get them out of your town when they are the only ones with the guns...

FWIW...This is my main premises for maintaining a right to bear arms in my country.

We should all look at this BBC video again...the locals don't want the pirates around either but seem held hostage or at least used as a human shield themselves...and you want to blow them up?

Darn..cant find it i will keep looking...but it is actual footage talking with village inhabitants and a couple fishermen on there plight having to live with the pirates presence...if someones knows the one im refering please post it for me..Thanks.
Found It!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8103585.stm

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