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Old 06-07-2012, 19:05   #1
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Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Hi Folks,

Long time lurker, first time poster with a question that's sure to rankle.

After over a decade of daysailing and doing short weekend cruises to nearby locations - CA Channel Islands mostly - on our Newport 30 MkII, we've decided to step things up with a larger boat that can handle guests comfortably and has the potential to make long passages in the relatively near future. I'm about four years away from an early retirement and would love to grow into a larger boat so that we can hit the ground (sea) running when I'm no longer office bound.

We've decided on a CC (and please, no arguments of CC vs. AC or recommendations of boats that are not CC monohulls) in the 41-46 foot range. One requirement is that the boat have decent passage berths - an attribute that is strangely hard to find. Another, and this is something that both the SO and I agree on, is a modern, sleek interior.

Contrary to prevailing taste, we tend to like the "european apartment style" look employed by Dehler and Hanse and have absolutely no issue if some of the interior work is done by machine. Unfortunately, the hull forms, relatively light displacement and cockpit orientation of these brands don't work for us. If we're going bluewater cruising, I'd prefer not to have a giant aft cockpit with dual wheels and a boat that bobs like a cork in a swell.

Can anyone recommend a CC boat in this size range that offers such an interior? This is an "all things being equal" type of question. It goes without saying that the boat needs to be seakindly and beefy. I'd prefer a sharper bow entry as opposed to the flatter bottoms we're seeing these days. It'd also be great to have the option for a cutter/dual headsail rig.

While I know that boats like Hylas are semi-custom, does that extend to the look/design of the interior fit out? Everything I see on the websites of makers like Hylas, Passport and even HR looks a bit too old fashioned for our tastes.

Also, both cost and sheer size come into play here. We'd like to keep the price below seven figures if possible and the size under 46. As someone who grew up sailing of and on, I'm stunned at how large cruising yachts have gotten. I'm neither a pauper nor an ocean racer but the fact that Hylas' smallest model is a 46 is pretty intimidating.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
CCR
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Old 06-07-2012, 19:57   #2
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

I hear you about dark cluttered cave like interiors. Many of the faster boats have somewhat spartan but clean looking modern interiors, to keep the weight down. You may want to look at boats in this category. Boats do not need to be traditional designs to be plenty seaworthy. Fast and seaworthy are not mutually exclusive. Go have a look at a Santa Cruz or an Express or an Alerion, just for an idea on interiors.
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Old 06-07-2012, 20:51   #3
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

As you have probably noticed traditional hulls generally come with traditional interiors. Old school fans like me will want the whole package: salty inside and out.The look you favor is going to be diffcult to find in a traditonal hull. These days the trend towards traditional is expressed in the cabin and topside lines while the underbody is contemporary.
Traditional boats, even older ones, needn't look like dark caves (see pics below; Alejuela on the left and Cape George on the right) and plenty of folks are comfortable enough with shorter keels.
I would look around at different Ropert Perry designs. I think he does a great job of combining old and new. Check out some of the blue water boats from Morris as well. $$$$ an issue with these in most cases eh?
I have noticed in some of the wide euro boats that the open, uncluttered clean look that can be pretty compelleing might also be pretty frustrating as the sailor gets flung across those wide open spaces moving about below decks in a seaway.
Trade offs, trade offs...
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Old 06-07-2012, 21:00   #4
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Thanks for the recommendations folks!

I may be looking for something that doesn't exist.

@Butler - even those pics are a bit too "salty" for our taste. I lean towards lighter woods, no brass hardware and a simple white (composite?) headliner. Think NYC loft apartment.

The curvy settees and cabinetry one sees in a Hylas or Passport look a bit too disco-era to me, like the designer was hired in 1978 and no one bothered to rethink the designs in the intervening decades. Of course, I understand that the lack of right angles is also safer.

I've read a few reviews of the newer Moodys - not the deck saloon floating condo thing but the "classic" series. They're certainly attractive outside and the lighter teak interiors are sharp as hell but they're not offered as CC, which is odd given that Moody used to only make CCs. Also, the new, flat bottomed hull may lead to pounding in a seaway.

Does anyone know if you can specify wood types and design themes with semi-custom builders like Hylas and Passport? Heck, I don't even know if I'd be able to afford even their smallest yacht.
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Old 06-07-2012, 21:16   #5
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Got ya on the look. Those pics weren't so much a recommendation or defense. Just a response to the "dark cave look" from another poster.
I have seen where a few high-end builders can give the buyer just about anything they want. There are some interesting Italian interiors out there too.
Best wishes on the search. So many possibilities!
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Old 06-07-2012, 21:28   #6
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

G'Day CCR,

So you seem to have discovered that when you want something a bit different the production market does not provide the answer.

Well, the obvious answer is to contact a reasonable designer and have the boat designed to your own specifications, or with really good luck, find a custom boat already built that you like. The latter is what we finally did and we are very happy with our "not a Benne, Bavie, Catalina, etc". Wasn't cheap, even at 13 years of age, but she has proven to be worth every penny extra that we paid.

It may mean that you must go for a somewhat smaller boat to stay within your <1 mil budget, but you will get all the divergent things that you demand and the quality that the sea demands.

Or, learn the art of compromise... after all, all boats are a collection of compromises, and their owners need to develop appropriate skill sets!

Good luck,

Jim
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:40   #7
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

I may sound like a broken record, but look at a Peterson 44. The interior would be too dark for your taste, but everything else seems to fit your requirments to the letter. Medium displacement, fin keel , skeg hung rudder and great lines. These boats sail wonderfully and are comfortable at anchor or on a passage. Even though I liked the Teak interior on the one I used to own, I agree that less Teak and more white would make for a lighter airier living space. If you are in the close to 7 figure bracket you could contact Doug Peterson and find out if the molds are still available, and have one built with the interior cosmetics suited to your liking or, for a whole lot less, buy the best used one on the market and have the interior cosmetics changed and new systems installed to suit you. Something that came up in one of the cc vs ac discussions(arguments) is that some cc boats dont have bridge decks in the cockpit. The P44 does have them and I consider them important. Hang an Aries on the back and a below decks auto pilot and you have a good 2 person passage maker with room for more people if you choose.___Just my highly opinionated opinion!____Grant.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:51   #8
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Hi,

I like the older Moodys (not from Hanse) - for my taste there are somewhere in between. If you invest a bit to change the sometimes odd upholstery color I think it may look much more "Ikea"

That's an example I actually like very much:

Gratitude Yachting Center (Rock Hall, MD)
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:56   #9
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Buy a great older boat for $200,000 and spend $20,000 to 40,000 on a complete interior redo. MUCH less than 7 figures.

Or, in this economy, a semi-custom might be more reasonable than you think. A builder like Morris or Hinkley may have something half way thru the pipeline that could be modified inside with little effort. Who is building the bets CC boat right now, regardless of interior design? ask them what it would take...
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:58   #10
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

@swisscraft

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually like the older (pre Hanse) Moodys. A friend had a 2001 Moody 38 that we liked save for the fact that it was just a bit cramped down below. The big issue was no sea berths and the settees in the salon were a hair too short to be converted - I'm 6'1".

I saw the boat you linked to on Yachtworld and was considering giving the seller a call. We'd have to redo the interior, but at the price it might be worth considering. Not sure of the headaches involved in what would essentially be gutting the interior and redoing it.
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Old 07-07-2012, 13:21   #11
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
I may sound like a broken record, but look at a Peterson 44. The interior would be too dark for your taste, but everything else seems to fit your requirments to the letter. Medium displacement, fin keel , skeg hung rudder and great lines. These boats sail wonderfully and are comfortable at anchor or on a passage. Even though I liked the Teak interior on the one I used to own, I agree that less Teak and more white would make for a lighter airier living space. If you are in the close to 7 figure bracket you could contact Doug Peterson and find out if the molds are still available, and have one built with the interior cosmetics suited to your liking or, for a whole lot less, buy the best used one on the market and have the interior cosmetics changed and new systems installed to suit you. Something that came up in one of the cc vs ac discussions(arguments) is that some cc boats dont have bridge decks in the cockpit. The P44 does have them and I consider them important. Hang an Aries on the back and a below decks auto pilot and you have a good 2 person passage maker with room for more people if you choose.___Just my highly opinionated opinion!____Grant.
Grant beat me to it. I have a Peterson 44 that needs a lot of interior work. I was planning to install new tanks, redo the engine room, including an updated Yanmar, and fix up the interior, but if you are open to the idea of buying her and doing a completely new interior, I would be happy to discuss. Boat is in Ft. Lauderdale, but trucking to the west coast is certainly doable, and my guess is your total project cost would be less than $100k, plus the cost of doing the interior to your specs.
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Old 07-07-2012, 13:35   #12
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Swisscraft, I went back and looked at the Moody you showed and it is a lovely boat, but am I missing something? It may be the photos, but there appear to be very few handholds in the interior. There also doesnt appear to be anything above the only really good seaberth, to tie a leecloth to._____Grant.
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Old 07-07-2012, 13:43   #13
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

Try Shannon Yachts......
They will build any interior you want to make a fabulous boat
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Old 07-07-2012, 14:15   #14
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

I like the understatted interiors also...well... the hylas comes to mind but as you said, mostly larger boats. Sceptre 41? Tollycraft 39? Personally I think large cockpits are way "over-worried", but that's just me I guess. My other thoughts on "light and bob like a cork" is that a heavy cruiser can be very wet compared with a light boat. Over the years I have moved my opinion that "light is right". They float accross the waves instead of barreling through and stopping with each wave. My Rawson 30. with a huge cockpit, was built during the oil crisis, so it was a very thin layup. Probably thinner than your Newport! I sailed it to Mexico and back and it was probably the driest boat I ever owned. I had a 47 ft with teak palace interior, although a more modern-ish design, it was very heavy. Probably the wettest boat I ever owned offshore.
Here's a boat offshore doing 20+ knots with a HUGE cockpit... Ok, Ok I know... these guys are crazy!
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Old 07-07-2012, 14:38   #15
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Re: Solid/Bluewater Center Cockpit with modern interior?

When you can't find what you want in the production boats then find a custom builder. We have done so and are thrilled with the result, even if the process has taken longer that we hoped. Launch day is still 9 days away.

Ours is a 42' CC by Bluewater Cruising Yachts in Australia who normally take at least 18 months to finish a boat. In our case, all the basic design features like keel, hull, sail plan, rudder etc are pre-determined because they use the moulds they have sitting out the back of the shed. These moulds are about 15 years old and this is likely to be the case with many custom builders who can't afford to build new ones in today's economic climate. However we wanted the heavy duty features that we think make a more robust and seakindly vessel than today's lightweights.

Once the hull, keel, deck & rudder are finished, everything else is made to your specification anyway so the interior can be as modern as you like. We wanted more windows, larger and fewer cabins than the standard plan.

Of course the production boats are cheaper, but given what you want to do with the boat, and the time frame you have to complete it the custom or semi-custom might represent better value. The finish quality on a boat that craftsmen have taken 18 months to hand build cannot be compared with a production boat and this is the part that you will enjoy for years afterwards.
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