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Old 07-02-2016, 09:03   #31
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

Just wish the cockpit was a bit bigger than a bucket.
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:19   #32
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

The "bucket" sized cockpit is old school way of keeping water weight off of you in a following sea. Getting pooped is a bad trade for a bigger foot well. We took some plastic sheeting on one crossing and lined the cockpit ,pumping hot water in for a sailing jacuzzi. Felt great to bathe in hot salt water on a moonlit night. It also let me know the difference in weight and manuerverability should we get pooped, ( which we did twice in 14k miles ).
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:31   #33
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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The "bucket" sized cockpit is old school way of keeping water weight off of you in a following sea. Getting pooped is a bad trade for a bigger foot well. We took some plastic sheeting on one crossing and lined the cockpit ,pumping hot water in for a sailing jacuzzi. Felt great to bathe in hot salt water on a moonlit night. It also let me know the difference in weight and manuerverability should we get pooped, ( which we did twice in 14k miles ).
Well aware why the cockpit is tiny and unsafe to stay in. But that is just nonsense when you look at all the boats that got pooped with larger cockpits and survived quite well. A deep and protected cockpit will keep crew safer. Some old time Archer boats had no cockpits under the theory of shedding water quickly. Very unsafe. A full cockpit will cause the boat to roll, thus shedding most of the contained water. We sailed a luders36 in a storm condition off Molokai and had a breaking sea literally bury the entire boat. Other than having a swimming pool for a short time to wad in, the boat did quite well in getting rid of the water, and that is one big,,deep cockpit. Very comfy also.
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Old 07-02-2016, 18:03   #34
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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Well aware why the cockpit is tiny and unsafe to stay in. But that is just nonsense when you look at all the boats that got pooped with larger cockpits and survived quite well. A deep and protected cockpit will keep crew safer. Some old time Archer boats had no cockpits under the theory of shedding water quickly. Very unsafe. A full cockpit will cause the boat to roll, thus shedding most of the contained water. We sailed a luders36 in a storm condition off Molokai and had a breaking sea literally bury the entire boat. Other than having a swimming pool for a short time to wad in, the boat did quite well in getting rid of the water, and that is one big,,deep cockpit. Very comfy also.
Not sure how many times you have been pooped in a Westsail 32'. Like I said before, I only had it happen twice in a 14k mile South Pacific trip. Once in Hawaii, ( I had her in charter off Lahaina for three years before run to NZ). Once was in the Pailolo like you. I can assure you a Luders 36 responds differently. The Westsail didn't "roll" with the additional one to two thousand pounds put on her stern. Quite the opposite, she slowed and brought the stern down until she shed and accelerated in front of the next swell. It would steer like a big canoe in huge following seas and was used to rescue others in storm conditions in Hawaii. Storage space aft, room in the engine room to squeeze in and work the whole engine ( Mine was an MD3 Volvo ). Great boat for two people. My boat now seats 10 comfortably in the cockpit so I prefer size over good sense. If I get pooped in this boat things are really bad. I guess the point is different boats do different things. Getting pooped in a Colin Archer designed hull of 32' is not comfortable but very controllable.
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Old 07-02-2016, 18:07   #35
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

Westsails vary hugely in quality and so will their pricing.

I am not sure why you are using a broker. Are you in the US using brokers to buy s/h cars too?

I bought our boat from the owner. Hand to hand, cash.

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Old 07-02-2016, 18:21   #36
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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Not sure how many times you have been pooped in a Westsail 32'. Like I said before, I only had it happen twice in a 14k mile South Pacific trip. Once in Hawaii, ( I had her in charter off Lahaina for three years before run to NZ). Once was in the Pailolo like you. I can assure you a Luders 36 responds differently. The Westsail didn't "roll" with the additional one to two thousand pounds put on her stern. Quite the opposite, she slowed and brought the stern down until she shed and accelerated in front of the next swell. It would steer like a big canoe in huge following seas and was used to rescue others in storm conditions in Hawaii. Storage space aft, room in the engine room to squeeze in and work the whole engine ( Mine was an MD3 Volvo ). Great boat for two people. My boat now seats 10 comfortably in the cockpit so I prefer size over good sense. If I get pooped in this boat things are really bad. I guess the point is different boats do different things. Getting pooped in a Colin Archer designed hull of 32' is not comfortable but very controllable.
I agree entirely. I never felt unsafe in the cockpit of my Westsail 32. I certainly did not worry about getting pooped in following seas. I would go anywhere in my Westsail 32. It was an awesome sea boat.

It was not a dry boat, but it shook off the seas like a champ.
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Old 07-02-2016, 19:02   #37
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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Colin Archer designed hull
Colin Archer did not design Westsail. Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe it was either Crealock or Atkin.

Getting pooped a minor issue, given the size of the cockpit well. Getting washed overboard a bigger concern, but I have never heard of anybody getting washed overboard from this cockpit either. We look at BCC and we find the same style of cockpit well, can't be a bad thing then.

We have one of those Scandinavian boats where the cockpit is supposed to be extremely safe and deep. Now fill it with a good wave and the boat will sail pointing her sprit at alpha centauri!

I buy this Colin Archer styled cockpit then.

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Old 07-02-2016, 19:10   #38
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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Colin Archer did not design Westsail. Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe it was either Crealock or Atkin.

Getting pooped a minor issue, given the size of the cockpit well. Getting washed overboard a bigger concern, but I have never heard of anybody getting washed overboard from this cockpit either. We look at BCC and we find the same style of cockpit well, can't be a bad thing then.

We have one of those Scandinavian boats where the cockpit is supposed to be extremely safe and deep. Now fill it with a good wave and the boat will sail pointing her sprit at alpha centauri!

I buy this Colin Archer styled cockpit then.

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... is descended from the double-ended pilot and rescue boats designed by the Norwegian naval architect Colin Archer. (Wikipedia)
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Old 07-02-2016, 19:16   #39
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

Atkin designed the "Dragon" and Bill Crealock took a lot from them to design the Westie. All of Atkin's. Designs were around Colin Archer in that size range.
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Old 07-02-2016, 21:38   #40
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

The reason that the W32 cockpit footwell is small is because there isn't room for a larger one. The boat is designed as a long distance cruiser for a couple. Cabin is carried well forward and aft for interior space. With the pinched stern of the double end design it just doesn't leave much room for a cockpit. For it's designed purpose, the cockpit works very well. You can sit two people comfortably on each side using the footwell. In port, it's a lourge with cushions against the bulwarks.

The cockpit was very dry except on one point of sail under specific conditions. On a reach doing hull speed with fore 5 plus winds and large 10' plus waves the boat will roll down and scoop water in the leeward rail. With a stock boat, there is nothing to stop the water from running back into the cockpit and filling the footwell. A nuisance that could be easily cured with a bit of 1x wood as a dam at the end of the cabin top. Built such an addition to the boat but never got around to installing the two wood pieces before we sold it. For some reason the new owner never felt the need for the dams in two subsequent SoPac cruises. Interestingly, our first and only experience with water in the cockpit was on final run into Hawaii from Tahiti of the 10,000 miles we cruised on the boat. We had a couple of other times that we did multiple day runs at hull speed without getting any water aboard.
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:02   #41
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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... is descended from the double-ended pilot and rescue boats designed by the Norwegian naval architect Colin Archer. (Wikipedia)
Exactly.

BTW Have never seen a 'Colin Archer pilot boat'. Have you?

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Old 08-02-2016, 06:09   #42
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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I agree entirely. I never felt unsafe in the cockpit of my Westsail 32. I certainly did not worry about getting pooped in following seas. I would go anywhere in my Westsail 32. It was an awesome sea boat.

It was not a dry boat, but it shook off the seas like a champ.
The WS32 is a great boat if you like cramped cockpits. Personally, we liked spending a lot of time on deck and sought out boats that had lots of usable room in the cockpit and on deck for more than two people. We did sail our WS43 almost around the world in various stages for almost 40 years. Center cockpits really are the way to go if your a long distance cruiser.

We did sail in tandem with a WS32 across the Indian ocean and it performed almost as well as an atkins's ingrid 38. The problem with the Archer designs is the rather long beam, originally designed to allow maximum passenger loading when rescuing floundering ships. This also means one "plows" a lot of water. The Ingrid design tapers the beam more so the bow slices through rather than plows through short waves. So if someone is looking at a WS32, they really owe it to themselves to also look at the Ingrid designs which are, imho, more seaworthy.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:35   #43
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

"The boat is designed as a long distance cruiser for a couple". Not true. The Archer design was adopted for the US market after Sir Robin K-J sailed his double enter to victory in the first solo round the world race(actually only one to finish). Fads and fashions follow renown. Sir Robin admitted it was what he could afford, not what he wanted to sail. What it proved was a determined man and a lifeboat design can sail around the world, not that it is the best boat for the task. Considering that a Pacific Seacraft Orion 27 has also sailed around the world, the old Archer design really is not a vessel of outstanding merit. The 32' WetSnail, much like car fins in the 60s, was more a marketing gimmick so folks could pretend to be another Sir Robin. What made it especially popular was its availability in kit form, at any stage of completion so the boat could be sold at very low prices. A lot of the home kits were poorly assembled with inadequate tabbing of bulkheads, questionable ballasting, and amateur hour wiring. The factory completed boats are worth a look. If you really need a bullet proof hull and want to sail in hurricane conditions, then its right up there with steel barrels as something that might protect you. But a lot of other boats have merrily sailed through hurricanes at sea and come out intact and unharmed.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:36   #44
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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Exactly.

BTW Have never seen a 'Colin Archer pilot boat'. Have you?

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Don't recall an actual " Pilot boat" of Colin Archer design to quote. With that said, I've seen a number of double ended hulls on pilot boat's.
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Old 08-02-2016, 23:26   #45
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Re: soldboats.com data for Westsail 32

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The WS32 is a great boat if you like cramped cockpits. Personally, we liked spending a lot of time on deck and sought out boats that had lots of usable room in the cockpit and on deck for more than two people. We did sail our WS43 almost around the world in various stages for almost 40 years. Center cockpits really are the way to go if your a long distance cruiser.

We did sail in tandem with a WS32 across the Indian ocean and it performed almost as well as an atkins's ingrid 38. The problem with the Archer designs is the rather long beam, originally designed to allow maximum passenger loading when rescuing floundering ships. This also means one "plows" a lot of water. The Ingrid design tapers the beam more so the bow slices through rather than plows through short waves. So if someone is looking at a WS32, they really owe it to themselves to also look at the Ingrid designs which are, imho, more seaworthy.
I think we are talking about different boats. Colin Archers fame among yachties was cemented by the Life Saving Boats he designed for the Norwegian Life Saving Service which was an amalgamation of working boats that had been built and worked successfully in the stormy North Sea. Colin Archer subscribed to a then current theory of design which carried the beam well forward. It works well for boats that mostly sail off the wind, not so good for beating into steep seas. The full bows provided buoyancy forward to lesson the chance of burying the bow and broaching when running in front of storm condition waves but take a lot of power to punch through waves.

In the late '20s, a guy commissioned William Atkins to scale down the 40 plus foot Archer Norwegian Life Saving Boat to 32'. He wanted a truly stout and proven boat for a short handed crew to sail on an extended blue water cruise. The guy stiffed Billy Atkins on the plans so he marketed them to the general public to recoup his labor. Vito Dumas and Robin Knox Johnston are two people who built boats that they circumnavigated to the Atkins Eric Design. He also designed a Marconi Rigged, flush deck version that was the basis for the Kendall, the progenitor to the W32. William Crealock did the interior layout and trunk cabin for the Vick's who started Westsail after they bought Kendall's molds at a Federal tax sale. Crealock also made minor changes to the hull design for Kendall primarily making a notch in the hull for the prop so the rudder had less of a cutout and was stronger. Other than that, the W32 hull is pretty much as Atkins designed it.

A big cockpit is not necessarily good for peaceful cruising. The multihulls had large cockpits and huge deck areas that tended to be a social gathering area for boats in an anchorage. Fine if you like to have a constant stream of people on your boat but not our idea of what we went cruising for. Having another couple over or at most two couples was comfortable but more than that wasn't something we even considered and would've driven us crazy if it happened regularly.

The double ender wasn't a design affectation though a lot of people were convinced that you had to have it for running before the wind in storms. It actually was the strongest way to build a wooden boat and a solid way to attach a rudder to the boat. 3 stout gudgeons bolted to the hull without a packing gland or shaft as a potential flooding point really made sense to all those double end designs that preceded the W32 for centuries. A design affectation was the canoe stern typical of most boats that tried to emulate the rugged design of the W32. Of course you are familiar with that in your W43. Just wonder why you went with that boat rather than w W42 if you like the center cockpit design??

The Alajuela 38 is the Ferrari of double enders. The additional length made for a much finer entry that goes to weather way better than the W32. They also went with all lead ballast concentrated as much as possible in the center of the boat to lessen hobby horsing, the bane of the W32. They also had a much taller stick that greatly improved light air performance. The other FRP Ingrids have the same issues as some kit boat W32s. Spread out iron ballast, heavy wooden sticks, poor finish and ODD interior layouts. Just as not all W32 kits were poorly laid out or built, many of the Ingrids were built way better than a Hinckley. Every Westsail that was being built that we saw when we were building ours was constructed to way higher standards than the factory and most cost more to build. I know that our boat had every piece of wood that touched the hull bonded to it with 3 layers of cloth and mat. Where the factory used plywood for the furniture, we used mortise and tenon joined real mahogany cabinet faces. The boat was insulated to the water line. Cabin sides and overhead were T&G mahogany over insulation. Hatches were water proof aluminum. Don't disparage the kit built boats till you've looked at them. Yes some are crap but many more are gems.

We bought the Westsail because of bad experience with factory built boats. Had one boat try and self destruct at sea because of really sh***y construction. Having a boat threaten to come apart a 100 miles at sea makes you a believer in a truly strong boat. Another boat busted most of the bulkheads loose crossing the channels here. A W32 is not a perfect sailing boat, is there one?? It is the best deal in a blue water boat for the money IF it is in good condition or cheap enough that you can put it in good condition.
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