Snubber

[Flagman101]

Hi, I'm french Canadian but I learned sailing mostly in english.
I'm on a french sailing forum and got into a discussion where I asked if he uses a snubber.
Seems my definition of a snubber is wrong. But I think it's his definition that is wrong.
So I'm asking what is a snubber?
To be more precise, what is a snubber when you anchor your boat.
I will tell you my definition later.
Cheers

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

Hi, I'm french Canadian but I learned sailing mostly in english.
I'm on a french sailing forum and got into a discussion where I asked if he uses a snubber.
Seems my definition of a snubber is wrong. But I think it's his definition that is wrong.
So I'm asking what is a snubber?
To be more precise, what is a snubber when you anchor your boat.
I will tell you my definition later.
Cheers

In the US a snubber is generally a length of rope attached to the chain outboard of the bow roller, led over the bow roller or as a bridle through chocks, and attached to a cleat or other hard point. It's purpose is to take strain off the windlass, quiet the chain on the roller, and reduce impact force when the chain stretches out tight.

Opinions vary greatly as to how long it should be, how big, how it should be constructed, and how it should be attached.

[Flagman101]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In the US a snubber is generally a length of rope attached to the chain outboard of the bow roller, led over the bow roller or as a bridle through chocks, and attached to a cleat or other hard point. It's purpose is to take strain off the windlass, quiet the chain on the roller, and reduce impact force when the chain stretches out tight.

Opinions vary greatly as to how long it should be, how big, how it should be constructed, and how it should be attached.

Thank you.

[Mike OReilly]

Yup… what Thin said.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In the US a snubber is generally a length of rope attached to the chain outboard of the bow roller, led over the bow roller or as a bridle through chocks, and attached to a cleat or other hard point. It's purpose is to take strain off the windlass, quiet the chain on the roller, and reduce impact force when the chain stretches out tight.

That's how I most frequently use the word too.
However, there is another use. The mechanical rubber/spring etc devices attached to docklines and mooring lines as additional shock absorbers are also frequently called snubbers.

If your list is in priority order, I'd change it. To me the primary purpose is to act as a "shock absorber'

The word is also used in other contexts such as electronic circuits. Generically, a snubber is anything that suppresses peaks.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's how I most frequently use the word too.
However, there is another use. The mechanical rubber/spring etc devices attached to docklines and mooring lines as additional shock absorbers are also frequently called snubbers.

I’d consider those part of a snubber. I’ve never used one, but isn’t the usefulness/benefit of them is that they just allow the snubber to be shorter?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I’d consider those part of a snubber. I’ve never used one, but isn’t the usefulness/benefit of them is that they just allow the snubber to be shorter?

They are often used on docklines lines as opposed to being part of an anchor rode snubber. The benefit there is that provide more shock absorption in the restricted length of a bowline/sternline.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

So I'm asking what is a snubber?
To be more precise, what is a snubber when you anchor your boat.

I can guess at the disagreement. That is because 'snub' has branched as it evolved in particularly the 20th century, so some specific meanings and uses are almost at odds with others. For example, one set of modern meanings are about slowing and halting something from moving, while another set is about a shock absorbing function for something that is unstoppable.

A. Let's start with a general definition:

A SNUBBER is a person or device that checks (stops, halts, or slows), suppresses, or restrains the action of some thing or person.

B. That has led to several specific nautical uses. They include - but are not limited to:

1. a person or device that checks, suppress, or restrains the movement of a vessel (a boat or a ship).

2. a person or device that checks, suppresses, or restrains a rope that is running out (such as with a load on the end of it, including having a boat on the end of that rope).

3. a device, usually of elastic material such as nylon or rubber, that acts as a shock absorber to check or suppress some action.

If you look at historical uses of snubber in nautical English, you would find it used for a person who slows or stops a loaded rope that is otherwise running out, for a rope that holds a boat close to a dock or shore, and for two of three devices used in mooring, including anchoring and docking.

If you look at historical uses of snubber outside nautical English, you would find it used for people who check or restrain others and, starting around 1920 in US English, as a simple form of shock absorber in cars, then in 1968 for an electronic circuit or component to suppress voltage spikes, and again in the 1970s for a device to dampen fluctuations in the flow of a fluid or to check the flow of a fluid.

C. for your very specific use in anchoring, you'll find snubber used recently both as:

1. a device that removes the forces transmitted along an anchor rode from the anchor windlass, with the intentions of (a) protecting the anchor windlass from the jerking forces along the anchor rode; and (b) transferring those forces to some other strong point.

2. a device that acts as a shock absorber between the anchor rode and the vessel, suppressing the jerking forces, with the intentions of (a) protecting the anchor from strong jerk forces that might weaken its embedding in the soil; and (b) protecting the vessel from those same jerk forces.

D. Exploring the etymology of the word is not simple. If we reduce it to its core 'snub', we see that it's not a Romance word (i.e. it did not come to English from French, Latin, or related languages) - but you already knew that.

It's history is not totally clear, but authorities point to related words in Low German and Scandinavian languages. Origins in Old Norse have been suggested. I don't think anyone has yet identified an ancestor in proto-Germanic or in proto-Indo-European.

In the younger generation of etymologists, one new (or refreshed) trend is to listen more to the sound of words and consider the evolution of those sounds. So the younger generation of etymologists would suggest that snub belongs to a family of words of the form (s)n*p where (s) is an optional sound, * is one of a small number of short vowels such as i or u, and p is a plosive such as b or p. That means that snub is closely related to snib, snip, and perhaps even snug and nub.

So we have 'snub-nosed revolver', 'to snub a friend', 'to snip and clip hair', 'to snug down the lines of a boat', and we can cut or snip away the non-essential to get to the 'nub' of something. 'Snib' has not been used much since the 18th century, but it was a rebuke of someone.

A sub-nosed revolver is one that has been cut short, just like a hair that has been snipped. To snug down a boat or the mooring lines of a boat is to make its gear fast and those lines short and taut.

If you've followed me so far, you'll see you need to shrug your shoulders at English and accept the snubber can have several meanings at the same time and be almost contradictory.

Perfidious, no? That's the English for you.

[Flagman101]

Al right thanks to all.
For me a Snubber is a length of rope attached to the chain outboard of the bow roller, led over the bow roller or as a bridle through chocks, and attached to a cleat or other hard point. It's purpose is to take strain off the windlass, quiet the chain on the roller, and reduce impact force when the chain stretches out tight.

That's always the term I have used and been told by english speaking sailors.

But the argument was that a snubber was only the rubber shock absorbers.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

But the argument was that a snubber was only the rubber shock absorbers.

Out of curiosity, what DO the French call the gear that we call a (anchor) snubber?

[Flagman101]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Out of curiosity, what DO the French call the gear that we call a (anchor) snubber?

Most call it a "Patte d'oie"
Loosely translated it would be a Goose feet, but It's a Y Bridel.
Being from french Canada many words are not correctly translated as we do tend to use Frenglish alot.
The correct terms from France are not always used.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

But the argument was that a snubber was only the rubber shock absorbers.

Av! My guess was completely wrong.

I think the whole device (perhaps a nylon line or a nylon bridle, or cordage with a rubbery object added or integral to the cordage) is a snubber.

But live humans do what they want with language.

By which I mean that marine supply stores or chandlers sell the rubber objects that could be used to add snubbing function to a non-elastic cordage under several names, including "mooring snubber".

On my humble boat, I use a rubber tong strap to absorb shocks in the boom vang (or kicking strap, should you prefer the older UK term). That rubber tong strap was sold as a "Sea Snub" or "Sea Snubber" (a brand or product name at the time - it has since disappeared from the marketplace).

My incorrect guess was that you and your friend were arguing about whether a snubber was something or some person that checked a loaded line from running out versus something that absorbs shocks.

I'd argue that second meaning, to 'snubber' meaning something that absorbed shocks, started around 1850 in the US and was the more common meaning in usage after 1920. The change definitely took place in US usage, initially nautical usage but by the 1920s extended to other flavours of English.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

Most call it a "Patte d'oie"
Loosely translated it would be a Goose feet, but It's a Y Bridel.
Being from french Canada many words are not correctly translated as we do tend to use Frenglish alot.
The correct terms from France are not always used.

I consider a bridle to be different to a snubber. A snubber has a single leg, a bridle has two legs.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by StuM

I consider a bridle to be different to a snubber. A snubber has a single leg, a bridle has two legs.

... And I would consider bridles to be a subset of snubbers, assuming they are made of elastic materials. For example, multihulls use snubbers in the form of a bridles.

And yes, there are snubbers on short docklines as well, but the difference is in context.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by StuM

If your list is in priority order, I'd change it. To me the primary purpose is to act as a "shock absorber'
The word is also used in other contexts such as electronic circuits. Generically, a snubber is anything that suppresses peaks.

Bingo.
I've designed many resistor/capacitor snubbers as an electrical engineer. The main point is to smooth out the spikes. Mechanical engineers use snubbers in systems like shock absorbers to limit the speed of travel (will smooth out a spike) and to limit the jolt at the end of travel.

A mechanical engineer would probably insist that an anchor snubber has a ONE function: to smooth out the harmful spikes in tension. Everything else is a side benefit, which we sailors also appreciate!