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Old 12-05-2013, 10:04   #1
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Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Ok, bad day yesterday :-(

Went out for the sail past, no wind, unfurled the jib so i had a sail up. Furler got fowled on furling the sail back in, figured just leave it mostly furled pulled into the slip.

In the rain trying to unfurl and furl it, using binocs saw that this time both the spinnaker halyard and the jib halyard had gotten wrapped around the top of the furler. I had had a few problems with the jib halyard before and had dicked around with it furling and unfurling and messing with jib halyard tension and gotten it fixed.

This time with two lines fowled trying to get spinnaker halyard out of there in the rain and *BOOM*. Noticed backstay tensioner flopped limp and boom dropped.

Holy crapped, used binoc and sure enough forestay snapped. Did a quick google and took some advice grapped (now unfowled) spinnaker halyard put it on foredeck cleat and winched it tight to save the mast. So far so good.

Now boat has fully furled sail on the furlex furling tube held mostly up the mast by the jib halyard.

The furler is a furlex continuous, the kind with the slotted tube that has the forestay in it.

Talking to other sailors and reading, ive heard that it could be:

1: a failed pin at top of the mast, $50 to replace
2: snapped forestay due to overtension when i was trying to unfowl, $250 to replace
3: snapped forestay AND broken furler tube, $4000 to replace
4: rigging come to the end of its life and needs to be replaced $unkn to replace

Boat is a 72 columbia 26 mk2. Its been treated very well by previous owners, in practically factory condition. Was raced professionally and heavily upgraded, theres no way for me to know if they redid the rigging.

My question... Is of your collective wise estimation. Especially helpful if any of you have experience with the furlex continuous furler. I had to leave the boat in the slip cant do anymore until next weekend.

Do you figure it was probably the pin or the forestay or is the furler likely toast. Sailing season is just starting... All my headsails are cut for this furler and cant be hanked...
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:32   #2
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Snapped forestay either at the top just below the terminal or at the bottom inside the furler. Whatever it is you will have to lower the entire forestay rig and take it apart to check. This guy is a good Furlex dealer and can provide advice.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:44   #3
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
Ok, bad day yesterday :-(

Went out for the sail past, no wind, unfurled the jib so i had a sail up. Furler got fowled on furling the sail back in, figured just leave it mostly furled pulled into the slip.

In the rain trying to unfurl and furl it, using binocs saw that this time both the spinnaker halyard and the jib halyard had gotten wrapped around the top of the furler. I had had a few problems with the jib halyard before and had dicked around with it furling and unfurling and messing with jib halyard tension and gotten it fixed.

This time with two lines fowled trying to get spinnaker halyard out of there in the rain and *BOOM*. Noticed backstay tensioner flopped limp and boom dropped.

Holy crapped, used binoc and sure enough forestay snapped. Did a quick google and took some advice grapped (now unfowled) spinnaker halyard put it on foredeck cleat and winched it tight to save the mast. So far so good.

Now boat has fully furled sail on the furlex furling tube held mostly up the mast by the jib halyard.

The furler is a furlex continuous, the kind with the slotted tube that has the forestay in it.

Talking to other sailors and reading, ive heard that it could be:

1: a failed pin at top of the mast, $50 to replace
2: snapped forestay due to overtension when i was trying to unfowl, $250 to replace
3: snapped forestay AND broken furler tube, $4000 to replace
4: rigging come to the end of its life and needs to be replaced $unkn to replace

Boat is a 72 columbia 26 mk2. Its been treated very well by previous owners, in practically factory condition. Was raced professionally and heavily upgraded, theres no way for me to know if they redid the rigging.

My question... Is of your collective wise estimation. Especially helpful if any of you have experience with the furlex continuous furler. I had to leave the boat in the slip cant do anymore until next weekend.

Do you figure it was probably the pin or the forestay or is the furler likely toast. Sailing season is just starting... All my headsails are cut for this furler and cant be hanked...

I know exactly what's going on with your boat. It can happen in a number of ways, but a halyard wraps around the forestay while using the furler, you try to force, it , puts too much force on the forestay and weakens it. If it happens enough the forestay will snap. Here's some pictures for you.

Happened to me, happened to two other boats I know, I can walk down a dock now and spot the boats at risk. Here's three pictures for you -- two compromised forestays, and the solution, a halyard restrainer, leads the halyard to the top of the forestay at a safe angle.

You can go to my blog if you want and read the whole story (curb yourself, you-know-who), titled "Your Mast Could Fall Down -- Really!"

I'll send the pics in another message -- I'm going to resize them. Been where you are ...
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:01   #4
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
Ok, bad day yesterday :-(

Went out for the sail past, no wind, unfurled the jib so i had a sail up. Furler got fowled on furling the sail back in, figured just leave it mostly furled pulled into the slip.

In the rain trying to unfurl and furl it, using binocs saw that this time both the spinnaker halyard and the jib halyard had gotten wrapped around the top of the furler. I had had a few problems with the jib halyard before and had dicked around with it furling and unfurling and messing with jib halyard tension and gotten it fixed.

This time with two lines fowled trying to get spinnaker halyard out of there in the rain and *BOOM*. Noticed backstay tensioner flopped limp and boom dropped.

Holy crapped, used binoc and sure enough forestay snapped. Did a quick google and took some advice grapped (now unfowled) spinnaker halyard put it on foredeck cleat and winched it tight to save the mast. So far so good.

Now boat has fully furled sail on the furlex furling tube held mostly up the mast by the jib halyard.

The furler is a furlex continuous, the kind with the slotted tube that has the forestay in it.

Talking to other sailors and reading, ive heard that it could be:

1: a failed pin at top of the mast, $50 to replace
2: snapped forestay due to overtension when i was trying to unfowl, $250 to replace
3: snapped forestay AND broken furler tube, $4000 to replace
4: rigging come to the end of its life and needs to be replaced $unkn to replace

Boat is a 72 columbia 26 mk2. Its been treated very well by previous owners, in practically factory condition. Was raced professionally and heavily upgraded, theres no way for me to know if they redid the rigging.

My question... Is of your collective wise estimation. Especially helpful if any of you have experience with the furlex continuous furler. I had to leave the boat in the slip cant do anymore until next weekend.

Do you figure it was probably the pin or the forestay or is the furler likely toast. Sailing season is just starting... All my headsails are cut for this furler and cant be hanked...

Sorry, My marina connection is choking on the photographs. Please don't listen to those who smirk that I might know something, and go to my blog. It will help you out. The photos are very good, very clear, and there's links to other articles on it. There's also a lot of bad advice about this kind of problem on the Intenet, so be careful. By the way, mine is a continuous furler and I think my friend's is too, but it's not just a problem with continuous furlers.

Your furler is probably OK if it didn't get bent.

This problem is the reason I put up my blog, because it's the kind of thing newer sailors won't know about, won't know to look for, and it's often not spotted in a survey. That's what my blog is: the stuff I wish I had known starting out. Much of it will be of no use to you at all, but this one ... I really think you should see it.

It cost me a little more than $700 to replace the forestay but the solution to keep it from happening again -- only $50, but believe it or not the rigger who replaced the forestay never mentioned it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:13   #5
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Snapped forestay either at the top just below the terminal or at the bottom inside the furler. Whatever it is you will have to lower the entire forestay rig and take it apart to check. This guy is a good Furlex dealer and can provide advice.

Been there, done that, got the bills to prove it -- I know what happened to his forestay.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:21   #6
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Heya, i think i stumbled onto your blog while feverishly googling to figure out what to do when the forestay snaps. Ill check it out again. I have read about halyard restrainers someplace. *in theory* the top part of the furler system should spin on the tube smoothly enough to eliminate this problem, so i blame either worn bearings or inadequate lubrication (if there is even a place to lubricate, i dont know how these things work - as you correctly guess im learning). That said, a halyard restrainer does still sound like a good idea.

The halyard wrap problem was a minor intermittent nuisance until i took the genoa down and raised a yankee jib in case i wanted to go out in the off season. Then it became more frequent. I tried adjusting the halyard tension tighter and lighter but the problem continued regardless.

Kettlewell: thanks for the furlex dealer info, but being in bc canada it wouldnt be honorable to ask a us dealer on the eastcoast for advice. I did give me a good idea though and i found some rigging dealers here who are on selden masts site (they make furlex)

Oddly enough i do not see any continuous furlers on their site at all. This worries me a bit.

I will check your blog. Mostly i am hoping for some peace of mind because being away from the boat for at least a week i am unable to take the forestay rig down and inspect where the damage is or how many parts will need to be replaced.

Ive heard numbers ranging from $50 to over $4000 and with boating season just beginning if the number is too big then the whole season may be a writeoff.

Heres to hoping its just the pin. Kind of felt like it, there was no twang like a wire cable snapping, it just kind of went with a thud. Ill.check your blog but welcome any further comments anyone may have.

Anyone familliar with furlex continuous furlers? If the top of the tube is bent or.warped does it disassemble in sections so i can just replace the affected sections?
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:27   #7
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
Heya, i think i stumbled onto your blog while feverishly googling to figure out what to do when the forestay snaps. Ill check it out again. I have read about halyard restrainers someplace. *in theory* the top part of the furler system should spin on the tube smoothly enough to eliminate this problem, so i blame either worn bearings or inadequate lubrication (if there is even a place to lubricate, i dont know how these things work - as you correctly guess im learning). That said, a halyard restrainer does still sound like a good idea.

The halyard wrap problem was a minor intermittent nuisance until i took the genoa down and raised a yankee jib in case i wanted to go out in the off season. Then it became more frequent. I tried adjusting the halyard tension tighter and lighter but the problem continued regardless.

Kettlewell: thanks for the furlex dealer info, but being in bc canada it wouldnt be honorable to ask a us dealer on the eastcoast for advice. I did give me a good idea though and i found some rigging dealers here who are on selden masts site (they make furlex)

Oddly enough i do not see any continuous furlers on their site at all. This worries me a bit.

I will check your blog. Mostly i am hoping for some peace of mind because being away from the boat for at least a week i am unable to take the forestay rig down and inspect where the damage is or how many parts will need to be replaced.

Ive heard numbers ranging from $50 to over $4000 and with boating season just beginning if the number is too big then the whole season may be a writeoff.

Heres to hoping its just the pin. Kind of felt like it, there was no twang like a wire cable snapping, it just kind of went with a thud. Ill.check your blog but welcome any further comments anyone may have.

Anyone familliar with furlex continuous furlers? If the top of the tube is bent or.warped does it disassemble in sections so i can just replace the affected sections?

This is going to be OK and you won't have to take out a second mortgage, and you don't have to replace the furler. I know someone who had a metal furler. He actually bent it hitting a bridge, but he was able to take it off and straighten it out, so just don't panic yet.

My opinion? You need the restraint on there. It may be that when you changed sails something happened that slightly changed the position of the furler, but rather than to move the furler, put the halyard restraint on.

My jib was actually flying from the spinnaker halyard, which is ALL wrong. We *think* the guy before me tried to "fix" the problem by switching halyards, but it only made it worse.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:30   #8
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

I have a Furlex, but with the drum, and when I installed it I was very careful to check and follow the instructions precisely as to the angle of the lead on the jib haliard at the top of the mast. It is critical to proper functioning.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:30   #9
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

PS the article you want is from mid-April. i just put up a different article on roller furlers Friday but that's not the one you want. The one you want is around April 14.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:35   #10
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

Mr. Canada,

Here's another possibility: when the sail is used partially furled, it changes the loading on the stay. It is so common for the stay to fail a relatively short way below the upper swage, that our trusted rigger in Australia recommends replacing the forestay every 5 years as a safety measure. So my guess is that at least you will need a new forestay.

Kettlewell is right, it will take you and a couple of friends to get the lot down without kinking it.

And Raku is right, too, if your setup requires a halyard guide and it doesn't have it, installing one when you fix things would be a good preventive measure.

We broke a forestay, in flat water, fortunately, in Vanuatu. It was broken about 6-8" below the Sta-lock. We were able to get the sail off, and the furler off with no damage; a new stay was shipped to us, and we fixed the whole deal ourselves.

Good luck with it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:37   #11
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

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Mr. Canada,

Here's another possibility: when the sail is used partially furled, it changes the loading on the stay. It is so common for the stay to fail a relatively short way below the upper swage, that our trusted rigger in Australia recommends replacing the forestay every 5 years as a safety measure. So my guess is that at least you will need a new forestay.

Kettlewell is right, it will take you and a couple of friends to get the lot down without kinking it.

And Raku is right, too, if your setup requires a halyard guide and it doesn't have it, installing one when you fix things would be a good preventive measure.

We broke a forestay, in flat water, fortunately, in Vanuatu. It was broken about 6-8" below the Sta-lock. We were able to get the sail off, and the furler off with no damage; a new stay was shipped to us, and we fixed the whole deal ourselves.

Good luck with it.

You're right of course. The forestay takes a lot of load, and that stuff doesn't last forever. It's a good habit to look at it any time you go up the mast (or for me, whoever I send up the mast -- i ain't goin' up there!)
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:43   #12
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

I reviewed your article. Yeah the pictures sure do look familliar to what i was seeing in the binocs when trying to get it unfouled. Also reminding me that the furler tube should not have been under strain from the wrap so the furler should be ok, and glad to hear that the tubes are pretty durable.

Reading your article too gives me more peace of mind: if the reason the stay snapped was because of the twisting, then the rest of the rigging is probably ok and im not necessarily dealing with rigging failing due to age. (and im not looking at a full rigging replacement)

From the picture of the halyard restrainer, it appears to decrease the angle at which the halyard reaches the furler, at least from how my boat is rigged. My system has the jib halyard coming down from a roller at the top of the mast, inclining about 15 degrees to connect with the upper furler component. This is why i beleive that lubrication or bearings in the upper furler were perhaps the root cause of the wrapping, with a tight halyard it shouldnt wrap around at all, but obviously the top of the furler was spinning or it wouldnt have wrapped.

Thank god for google... If i hadnt read about dropping a spinnaker halyard to the bow cleat i could have ended up returning to a demasted boat and a bunch of angry slip mates wity damaged boats.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:51   #13
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

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Originally Posted by mr-canada View Post
I reviewed your article. Yeah the pictures sure do look familliar to what i was seeing in the binocs when trying to get it unfouled. Also reminding me that the furler tube should not have been under strain from the wrap so the furler should be ok, and glad to hear that the tubes are pretty durable.

Reading your article too gives me more peace of mind: if the reason the stay snapped was because of the twisting, then the rest of the rigging is probably ok and im not necessarily dealing with rigging failing due to age. (and im not looking at a full rigging replacement)

From the picture of the halyard restrainer, it appears to decrease the angle at which the halyard reaches the furler, at least from how my boat is rigged. My system has the jib halyard coming down from a roller at the top of the mast, inclining about 15 degrees to connect with the upper furler component. This is why i beleive that lubrication or bearings in the upper furler were perhaps the root cause of the wrapping, with a tight halyard it shouldnt wrap around at all, but obviously the top of the furler was spinning or it wouldnt have wrapped.

Thank god for google... If i hadnt read about dropping a spinnaker halyard to the bow cleat i could have ended up returning to a demasted boat and a bunch of angry slip mates wity damaged boats.

I really don't think so. while you should keep everything lubricated, it takes a lot of force to twist a forestay. What the halyard restraint does (it's not clear in that picture) is LOWER very slightly where the halyard leaves the mast and goes over to the roller furler.

All of this is also why I have a spinnaker halyard on my boat. Mast insurance.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:19   #14
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

I'm sorry. I know I'm going on and on, but I think this is important. You said, "The halyard wrap problem was a minor intermittent nuisance ..."

No. It's an accident waiting to happen, and a you pointed out, it could do a lot of damage to your boat, to someone else's boat -- someone could get badly hurt.

ANY halyard wrap is a serious problem. Even if it only happens once (that you know of).

And what if someone else raises your halyard when you're going out? You don't want to just "watch out" for a problem that can take out your mast, damage your boat, damage somenoe else's boat, hurt or kill someone.

A halyard wrap is never a minor thing.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:45   #15
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Re: Snapped forestay , furlex furler, halyard wrap

I thought a spinnaker halyard was for flying a spinnaker. ;-)

Yes lowering the point at which the halyard is released by the mast to the furler certainly would diffuse the issue, as it wouldnt be able to wrap around anything, unless the furler top was jammed, which is another problem altogether.

Some folks at the yacht club suggested that after i get the sail, furler, and stay off that i could secure the mast with the spinnaker and jib halyards, and go up the mast to check out whats going on up top. Others suggested that i take the whole mast off, which sounds like a ton of work and a pain in the neck (where do i put a 40ish foot mast? How do i even move it?)

How did you manage to replace your forestays, and install the restrainer? DIY, use a rigger, go up the mast with halyards keeping her steady, or.remove the mast?
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