Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-04-2015, 09:45   #16
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyo View Post
One thing to grab a line trailing behind, another to find it useful. One a hot hot sweltering day in New England on a hot PHRF racer returning from an afternoon around the buoys under spinnaker for fun we trailed a line off the back just to cool off. Great fun, I was last and hung out for 10 minutes 30 feet back. Slowly pulling forward was not hard but when I got to the the stern all strength had been sapped out of me and I needed to be hauled up on deck. I was in pretty good shape then and it was quite spooky and a real wake up call to stay on board.
Thanks for posting your experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkrman69 View Post
Hey all.

I agree, if you fall over and your tether doesn't keep half your body out of the water, yer pretty much toast.

almost 20 years ago I had a 21 ft Colombia. was sailing along the Keys in the Gulf stream. this boat sailed nice. no autopilot needed, just lash the tiller and trim the sails. the wind was out of the south @ about 20 knots, so the seas were up a bit. I was coming back up with coffee when I lost my balance and went over on the lea side. luckily I was able to grab the benny sheet as I went over. I was trailing about 6 or 8 ft behind the boat. Thank god for the stop knot on the sheet, it was all I could do to hang on. I was 40 years old and in pretty good shape, I'm no weakling. I tried to hand over hand back and couldn't grip the line good enough, I kept sliding back to the stop knot. Here is where the second bit of luck came in. I guess the extra drag of me in the lea side unbalanced the tiller to sail trim and the boat fell slowly off the wind. after she jibed about the genny backwinded slowing the boat enough for me to climb back aboard, which, as exhausted as I was, I could barely do. I was doing about 5 knots through the water. If there would have been an autopilot I'm sure I wouldn't be telling this story. If it had been a bigger boat, my fate would have been sealed too. My tether will keep my chest at gunnel hight.
Thanks for posting your experience. Helpful and good cautionary story too.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 09:46   #17
Registered User
 
jheldatksuedu's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: On my boat, Manhattan, Kansas or LaBelle, Florida
Boat: 45 custom steel ketch-Steelin Time
Posts: 396
Images: 6
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillsailor View Post
The theory (I haven't tried it in anger) is that I can pull the tail end thus releasing he rope ladder and that will at least give me a fighting chance to then climb aboard ----I know it will be tough but not as tough as trying to scale 5 ft of slippery, polished freeboard while wearing pounds of soggy clothing ---hope I never have to try it !--FWIW just my two bits
Carry some small line in a pocket, maybe 2, strong enough to hold your weight, make a loop and use it as an ascender with a prussic knot, a climber uses 2 of these of different lengths to climb a rope, push one up stand in the loop, push the other up, repeat.

How to tie various knots : Prussic Knot

I've always enjoyed knots.
__________________

__________________
A bad day sailing is 100 times better than a good day at work. www.jheld.mysite.com
jheldatksuedu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 09:53   #18
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Here is a link to a FREE online PDF book I recommend for those interested in Single Handed Sailing.

The author is Andrew Evans, an experienced single handed racer.

It is loaded with practical tips and comments from other experienced sailors too. Lots of material to consider.

http://sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/Sin...rdEdition2.pdf
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 09:54   #19
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

"When I read how the clew knocked you out, I think that is important to know and should be considered by other sailors as one of the possible dangers of working on the foredeck (e.g. being hit on the head by a heavy clew or gear such as a pole etc.). "

I was also knocked to my knees and quite stunned on another occasion. I had just finished rigging the spinnaker pole on a deep downwind run. The boat was sailing, under control of the ST6000 Autohelm autopilot, quite nicely at about 7 knots with a full main and asymmetrical spinnaker. The inboard end of the pole was attached to a car running on the track up the mast and was about 8' above the deck.

I was standing in front of the mast admiring my work and the scenery about 20 miles west of the Palo Verde peninsula south of Los Angles. Suddenly, the 24' long aluminum pole (43 pounds) dropped back to deck level while whacking me on the top of the head.

I went to my knees, saw stars, and was speechless (quite the accomplishment) for a minute or so. I was wearing my long tether and it was attached to the mast. My wife was in the cockpit and saw the whole thing but did not feel the need to come forward since I was kneeling on the foredeck and was attached to the boat.

WHY did the pole drop?

I had not been very careful when I put the mast car control line in it's jam cleat and the first little gust / wave action caused the spinnaker to bounce a bit and the line to come loose.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 10:09   #20
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"When I read how the clew knocked you out, I think that is important to know and should be considered by other sailors as one of the possible dangers of working on the foredeck (e.g. being hit on the head by a heavy clew or gear such as a pole etc.). "

I was also knocked to my knees and quite stunned on another occasion. I had just finished rigging the spinnaker pole on a deep downwind run. The boat was sailing, under control of the ST6000 Autohelm autopilot, quite nicely at about 7 knots with a full main and asymmetrical spinnaker. The inboard end of the pole was attached to a car running on the track up the mast and was about 8' above the deck.

I was standing in front of the mast admiring my work and the scenery about 20 miles west of the Palo Verde peninsula south of Los Angles. Suddenly, the 24' long aluminum pole (43 pounds) dropped back to deck level while whacking me on the top of the head.

I went to my knees, saw stars, and was speechless (quite the accomplishment) for a minute or so. I was wearing my long tether and it was attached to the mast. My wife was in the cockpit and saw the whole thing but did not feel the need to come forward since I was kneeling on the foredeck and was attached to the boat.

WHY did the pole drop?

I had not been very careful when I put the mast car control line in it's jam cleat and the first little gust / wave action caused the spinnaker to bounce a bit and the line to come loose.
Another good example/lesson!

Thanks for adding that one too. As I read it, I remembered my own experiences manhandling a long spinnaker pole on the foredecks of some boats, so your description brought back some vivid memories.

Then the WHACK on the head! OUCH! Lucky your skull was not split! (or serious concussion).

It is often the little things that can cause us to suffer larger consequences.

Note to myself for future: Double Check the Mast Car Jam Cleat!
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 10:12   #21
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 860
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by farm sail View Post
we all know the best self rescue is to not go overboard, harnesses and jack-lines are hard to beat. but i am sure just as with iron workers and cell tower climbers there are times a single handed sailor choose for better or worse to forgo the harness for one reason or another. i cant imagine a worse feeling than to go in the drink and watch my boat sail on without me.

i have heard sailors talk of a harness with a longer tether so they have more freedom of movement but would still be attached to the boat should they go over others have mentioned trailing a line that one could swim to and use to get back aboard. i am skeptical that unless that line was real long it would be passed long before you could regain composure and swim to it even at modest sailing speed. i also doubt the average persons ability to pull against the rush of the water to pull them selves back to the boat and climb back aboard

i am curious to thoughts, insight and experiences. also looking for other ideas that might be workable. perhaps some way that would depower the sails if you went over or would put the helm hard over or maybe the reality is just wear a harness with a short enough tether that you dont go over?


thanks in advance
If you practice MOB rescue with at least one other hand onboard, you know how difficult that is. Self-rescue is really a form of denial in my opinion. If you don't agree, I suggest you practice some self rescue exercises while you have someone on board that can bring the boat back to you once you give up.

Our philosophy is to treat the edge of the deck as a 500ft cliff. Your chances of self rescue from either scenario are slim to none... [and I do wear a self rescue umbilical on my harness... and practice with it. If I were injured, however, it would be useless...]

Therefore, your time and effort is better spent concentrating on staying onboard instead of recovery. Always being attached to the boat in such a way you can't fall 'off the cliff' is what we practice. [Easier said than done, I know...]

Often overlooked is the engineering of jacklines and their fastening methods and attachment points. You would be amazed at the surge load put on the jackline when you hit the water even at modest speeds... [worse case scenario.]

If you want to read in-depth and very qualified e-book about tethering options, including the engineering required, I highly recommend you join Attainable Adventure Cruising as a supplement to the good information available on this forum.

Stay onboard!
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:06   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: GREEN COVE SPRINGS, Florida
Boat: Irwin 43 Mk111 CC, Sloop
Posts: 362
Send a message via Skype™ to adlib2
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by farm sail View Post
we all know the best self rescue is to not go overboard, harnesses and jack-lines are hard to beat. but i am sure just as with iron workers and cell tower climbers there are times a single handed sailor choose for better or worse to forgo the harness for one reason or another. i cant imagine a worse feeling than to go in the drink and watch my boat sail on without me.

i have heard sailors talk of a harness with a longer tether so they have more freedom of movement but would still be attached to the boat should they go over others have mentioned trailing a line that one could swim to and use to get back aboard. i am skeptical that unless that line was real long it would be passed long before you could regain composure and swim to it even at modest sailing speed. i also doubt the average persons ability to pull against the rush of the water to pull them selves back to the boat and climb back aboard

i am curious to thoughts, insight and experiences. also looking for other ideas that might be workable. perhaps some way that would depower the sails if you went over or would put the helm hard over or maybe the reality is just wear a harness with a short enough tether that you don't go over?


thanks in advance
I used Rock Climbing 5-Step Etrier port/stbd at the beam. These were rolled up on deck and could be deployed by pulling on a trailing land yard from the water. Never had to use them except to demonstrate to new Crew, but worked fine. Google for them, number of suppliers around.
__________________
adlib2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:09   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sussex UK
Boat: Unique 1400 14M
Posts: 85
Send a message via Skype™ to brightontrader
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

I am with Wakefield on his post...make sure you don't go over because you are simply dead. I clip on to a very secure point so I can stand and pxx but would only go half over the rail if the worst happened.

When solo I don't wear a lifejacket because I don't want to die slowly.

If solo make your boat so you do not have ot leave the safe area, me, rollers on all sails. I never use the spinnaker solo, asking for trouble/.

They say that seat belts in cars make you take more risks driving, I am sure long lifelines do the same.

Like an earleir poster I do go forward without clipping on, but not in heavy seas or after a few beers, and am very conscious that falling overboard is not an option.

I think having a MOB solo system is asking for trouble.
__________________
brightontrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:14   #24
Registered User
 
powsmias's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Jersey
Boat: Pearson 35 #285
Posts: 309
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by George DuBose View Post
One trick I have only read about is to trail a line with a float behind the boat. The line should be somehow connected to the autopilot, so if one falls in the water and can catch the trailing line, the autopilot can be disconnected.

Of course, there must be a ladder to reboard the boat with.

Prevention is worth a pound of cure and harnesses on short tethers is the best way to go.
hi, new to this but think bout things like this alot, towing line behind boat i like, connected to auto pilot but i think if it was doubled up you could slip your arm thru and get a definite hold on it till the float caught up to you. thoughts?
__________________
powsmias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:14   #25
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post

Self-rescue is really a form of denial in my opinion. If you don't agree, I suggest you practice some self rescue exercises while you have someone on board that can bring the boat back to you once you give up.

Our philosophy is to treat the edge of the deck as a 500ft cliff. Your chances of self rescue from either scenario are slim to none...

Therefore, your time and effort is better spent concentrating on staying onboard instead of recovery. Always being attached to the boat in such a way you can't fall 'off the cliff' is what we practice. [Easier said than done, I know...]


Stay onboard!
Best I've ever read.

Thanks.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:15   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ottawa, ON
Boat: Nonsuch 30c
Posts: 12
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

With new technology such as AIS, GPS, Autopilots, etc. Has anyone seen a discussion of a homing device that would activate and cause the autopilot to return to the device should a person fall overboard?

Many of the new drone devices have follow me modes, that will actually follow the wearer of a small transmitter. They also have safeguards so that if they lose connection with the controller or the batteries discharge below a safe level. The drone returns home.

The best solution is not fall overboard, but given existing technology it seems that a return to transmitter mode for the autopilot would be trivial to produce.
__________________
jep17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:21   #27
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,051
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
quick search revealed this thread

Lots of good info here

Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

But basically - i fyou go overboard when singlehanding - you're fish food
Amen on the fish food.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:49   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,853
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Hey, fish gotta eat too.


S/V B'Shert
__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 11:51   #29
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

"With new technology such as AIS, GPS, Autopilots, etc. Has anyone seen a discussion of a homing device that would activate and cause the autopilot to return to the device should a person fall overboard?"

all that will do is get the boat in the general vicinity of the MOB event. But, the MOB will have drifted aways in the wind and waves. Assume the MOB drifts at 1/2 knot (3000' per hour or 50' per minute) and it takes 90 seconds to return the boat to the MOB event. The MOB will have drifted 75' from the location where they fell in.

We have tested the MOB return function on our boat several times. We thro a life ring in the water, hit the MOB on the GPS (the boat has traveled 50 or so feet by the time the helmsman hits the button) and then tell the GPS to drive the boat, via the autopilot, back to the MOB.

The boat never gets within 100' of the MOB cushion.

And, more important, the boat must be in exactly the correct location for the MOB to reboard. NO GPs, autopilot, or anything other than a human can position the boat and maintain that position.

I raced with the same crew for many years on many bigger boats. We practised a lot of MOB using cushions, float coats, crewman as the MOB. In any kind of wind and sea we found the MOB about 1/2 the time, UNLESS, the MOB pole with a flag was also deployed.

Even with a skilled racing helmsman it was quite difficult to get the boat into position for the MOB to make an unassisted return to the deck.

My wife and I have done many two-handed MOB drills on Mirador. We trail a 100' line and try to make a circle around the MOB to allow them to grab the line. Then the person on board stops the boat and lets the MOB pull themselves to the stern where they can pull down the swim step boarding ladder.

Even in that scenario, it takes a fair amount of finesse on the wheel to keep the trailed line close enough to the MOB for them to grab it. In 15 knots and 3' seas it is very difficult for both the helmsman and the MOB.

SO - NO automated device will be of any value

The ONLY answer is do not fall overboard.

I had been sailing for 25-years on hundreds of different boats in a lot of fairly intense situations when I decided to start single handing. I spent a great deal of time, had a lot of (literally) nightmares about falling overboard while single handed, and thought up and discarded many different techniques to deal with single handed MOB. I experimented with trailing lines, lines attached to the helm, to the throttle, ladders over the side, lines tied to the swim step ladder and none worked.

Now, after 20-years of single handing I know there is no answer other than to stay on the boat.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 12:30   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denmark
Boat: Hallberg-Rassy 42F
Posts: 20
Talking Re: single handed sailing MOB self rescue

Tor Pinney in his recommendable book Ready for Sea (Sheridan House 2002) has a thorough description of a several hundred feet floating line trailing the boat offshore. It is by pulleys and shock cords attached to his Monitor windvane. So there is a slim chance to disconnect the windvane by pulling the trailing lifeline hoping the boat will round up. Other than that I would prefer lifelines from the stern to the bow going centerline attched midships at the base of the mast.
__________________

__________________
Svalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mob, rescue, sail, sailing, single

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Capri 25 for Single-handed Sailing smo General Sailing Forum 9 06-11-2015 09:27
EU Forbids Single Handed Sailing? hpeer Seamanship & Boat Handling 14 08-06-2014 11:51
Single Handed Sailing tonytheboat General Sailing Forum 18 02-10-2012 04:15
How to Setup Your Sailboat for Single-Handed Sailing canadianllama Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 40 11-09-2011 10:24
Sailing spinnakers single-handed Stede General Sailing Forum 2 30-05-2008 22:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.