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Old 12-04-2008, 09:11   #16
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Cleats and upward presure

I think you can fly your spin, all though not sure how efficiently. My worry would be the upward pressure on your cleats. When you are snubbing in anchor conditions the pressure on the hardware is lateral. You may rip out your cleats or worse cause a deck delam.

Jack
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:28   #17
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Thanks for the input, guys.

I think I'll give it a shot someday when it's very calm and I'm getting nowhere going downwind. Over the next few days here, it's supposed to blow like crazy, so this is a "for another day" type of thing to try.

I can't rig it up at the slip first (although that sounds nice) since I don't go to slips (only fuel and water docks).

I'll just have to make sure everything looks right and give it a shot while underway in light winds.

I'm sure I won't be a pro at trim, but just to get it up and get used to it will be nice. I'll tie off the wheel and see if I can do it later on the trip.

Thanks again... looking forward to a little extra downwind power.

PS: I'll check on those cleats, but I'm pretty sure they can handle it. I don't see a spinnaer load being greater than anchoring loads... ? Maybe I'm off on that, but I'll double check them anyway (for good backing plates, etc..) All my cleats on this boat are enormous. Much larger than on the old Gulfstar.

Dave: Our "Duchman" is not the same as what we call Lazy Jacks here. It's a special set of guide wires that go from the topping lift to the boom and go directly through the main sail in several areas. This allows the main to follow the guide wires as it falls, almost flaking it for you, instead of dropping it in a pile in the lazy jacks.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:44   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens 47 View Post
I think you can fly your spin, all though not sure how efficiently. My worry would be the upward pressure on your cleats. When you are snubbing in anchor conditions the pressure on the hardware is lateral. You may rip out your cleats or worse cause a deck delam.

Jack
Ummm that's not going to be a problem with sean's foredeck. His cleats are huge and the decking is over an inch thick and solid as a rock.
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Old 12-04-2008, 14:39   #19
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Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
Ummm that's not going to be a problem with sean's foredeck. His cleats are huge and the decking is over an inch thick and solid as a rock.
Which is true and might have something to do with why I need to break out a spinnaker in the first place... ha ha ha!!!
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Old 12-04-2008, 15:26   #20
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Originally Posted by ssullivan View Post
Thanks for the input, guys.

I think I'll give it a shot someday when it's very calm and I'm getting nowhere going downwind. Over the next few days here, it's supposed to blow like crazy, so this is a "for another day" type of thing to try.

I'll tie off the wheel and see if I can do it later on the trip.
Yeah, I'd certainly wait for a very calm day.

With hydraulic steering you probably don't need to tie off the wheel - the steering shouldn't be able to backdrive anyway (ie the rudder shouldn't be able to turn the wheel) - it should stay wherever you leave it. Easy to test - when motoring or sailing, just put a bit of lock on and take your hands off the wheel - it should just stay where you left it.
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Old 12-04-2008, 15:37   #21
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Sulli,

Pull a wee bit of the headsail out to help preventing wrapping the spinnaker. WE WILL WANT PICS.....LOLOLOLOL
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Old 12-04-2008, 17:38   #22
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Hi, I use a symmetrical spinnaker on my PDQ, singlehanded all the time. I keep the tack and sheet rigged all the time, so it's not too much to set up. A pole is not needed on a cat.
An autopilot is absolutely nessesary if you are solo, and it handles a symmetrical chute with ease. Since there is no pole involved, the sail is pretty much self tending, and jibing is an easy slow motion affair.
I've sailed in 18kts true wind up Delaware Bay last summer from Cape May to the C&D almost the entire way under the spin. and A/P. The only problem is that I think I should be going faster, but other than that it's really a cinch to to fly.

Marc
Marc,
You mentioned that you thought you were not going fast enough in 18k but you didn't say how fast you were actually going?
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Old 13-04-2008, 16:38   #23
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In light breezes, there is no reason why you couldn't launch and douse a symmetrical kite single handed. You just need to be methodical, that is all. Assuming you can tie off your helm to allow you to move to the fordeck to set it up, at least. However, you will need to be able to reach your brace (guy) winch & sheet winch from your steering position, and will need to be able to pull your kite halyard from your steering position also. It will help if you can get your kicker (downhaul) back to the steering position and can cleat it off, rather than having the clutch jammed down.

Also, it will make things a lot easier if you "band" your kite ; i.e. put elastic bands around it, every 4' or so. The easiest way to do this is, when packing it, to use a bucket with the end cut out, and put the elastic bands over the bucket, then pull the kite through the bucket (from the head first), pulling the bands off the bucket and onto the kite as you go. Banding the kite will prevent it from setting until you (i) have it fully hoisted, and (ii) until you pull on the sheet (and, if necessary pull the pole aft)



Run your sheets and braces (guys?) up first.
Set your pole ready to pull it up.
Clip your sheets & braces onto your clews.
Pull your pole up to parallel.
Pull your brace aft until the pole is about 2' off the forestay, and cleat it off
Pull the sheet aft a ways to take up the slack.
Pull the halyard to get the kite masthead - do this as quickly as you can.
Pull the sheet to break the bands and the kite should fill.
Adjust pole position as necessary.

Dropping the kite can also be a lot of fun. Single handed the best bet will probably be to go for a classic float drop, using the main to provide a lee. You will pull the kite in using the lazy brace. Basically, run dead square, or even slightly by the lee, and let the pole right forward to put the kite right in the lee of the main, let the brace run, then release the halyard (if necessary, control the rate of drop with your foot) while pulling the kite down, under the boom, into the cockpit, with the lazy brace.

Anything over about 8 knots of breeze, all bets are off!
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Old 13-04-2008, 23:35   #24
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Originally Posted by Herestolife View Post
Marc,
You mentioned that you thought you were not going fast enough in 18k but you didn't say how fast you were actually going?
Hi, I was probably doing 5 1/2 to 6 kts. slightly off of dead downwind. My sym. spin. seems to be the right size, I just feel it should be faster.
Marc

By the way, my boats name is the same as your handle, only spelled
Here's 2 Life
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Old 13-04-2008, 23:47   #25
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Sean, possibly out of your budget right now, but Bamar do a product called Rollgen. Apparently it is the only roller furling Geneka system in the world.
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Old 14-04-2008, 00:03   #26
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Quote:
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Sean, possibly out of your budget right now, but Bamar do a product called Rollgen. Apparently it is the only roller furling Geneka system in the world.
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we use this product and its fab
no problem to use single handed and can be setup befor you sail.
also you just furl in on one side and furl out on the other to jibe can be done faster than you think.
the rig and sail must be mached to each other for size so it furls properly and you need some sort of pole or bridle to hold it about a foot forward of the head sail to give clerance for operation.
cost for a 37ft cat without the sail was 1000 plus 500 for the bow sprit frame we fabricated.
it was a lot of money but it alows me to use the sail at the drop of a hat. so now i sail when i would have used the iron sails befor.
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Old 14-04-2008, 04:42   #27
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Facnor also make a assy kite roller now. Not sure if it would work with a sym kite since both edges are luff or leach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Sean, possibly out of your budget right now, but Bamar do a product called Rollgen. Apparently it is the only roller furling Geneka system in the world.
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Old 14-04-2008, 04:55   #28
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Sean,

Rig it and fly it, no problems in breeze under 20, lock off your helm to raise the bell. I would recomend the main also be up so if the world goes pear shape you can hide the kite behind the main and deal with it. One note of caution with the snuffer. When opening the ATN: the bottom of the sail filling can cause the bell to sky rather quickly. We fly our assy single and double hand up to about 25.

Good luck and have fun with it.

Joli
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Old 14-04-2008, 07:40   #29
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I think you are describing lazy jacks on your boat. The Dutchman system is one with monofilament line going through grommets placed in the sail itself. The sail raises up and down the monofilament.

MVBInfo.com - Dutchman


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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Why is it that Dutchman (lazyjacks) are so uncommon over there?

At the end of the day its just a bit of rope , some blocks and some horn cleats.

This is how I did mine on a rotating mast.

On the spreader pic you can see that it was loose peice of VB cord running through the jumper and spreader blocks.

In real life the blocks stayed where they were in relation to everything and as the mast rotated the VB cord slid through the blocks.

Adjustment to boom height when dropping main was by untying rope from horn cleat (small 2" Ronstan) lift boom re-tie.

Fire halyard, main drops flaked in bag, big plastic zip done up and Rum o'clock all in about 1 minute.

A mistake in the drawing, I had a boom bag that I had made at a tarpaulin manufacturer (way cheaper than sailmaker, cost less than $200) and the cheek blocks were attached to the top batten.

You can get an idea of the boom bag in the pics

Dave
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Old 14-04-2008, 08:42   #30
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Sean,

Don't let the conservatives dissuade you. I have flown spinnakers singlehanded, sym and assym, with and without poles, on monohulls and cats. After many years some friends talked me into a sock (accused me of being close-minded, they did) but I don't have much experience with that yet. An a/p would be an aid, but you can do it just by locking the wheel if you get everything set up ahead and are ready to move smartly.

You want the main up, even if with a reef or two in it since it gives you the chance to blanket the spinnaker if the wind pipes up and you need to get it down quickly. With a cat and the tack on the windward hull you should be able to fly the whole main. If you get a bit too much excitement blow the tack of the chute and the whole bit will be behind the main and blanketed from the wind.

Get up here on the Chesapeake and we can go out and play -- your boat or mine.

sail fast, dave
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