Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Therapy

There is a thread called long distance wifi that will give more (way more) than you want to know.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ice-19383.html


See you in about a week or so........

77 pages, yep, see you in a week unless someone drops in here on this thread. So far the longest haul I've seen posted over there is 5 miles, which IMHO, is impressive.

[bluetriguy]

Originally Posted by medicrene

Perhaps this thread can be used not to describe theoretical ideas of how to sail cheap, but actual examples.

For example, I have wood masts on my ketch. They needed to be pulled, inspected and repaired. Joints were coming apart. Hardware needed to be replaced. the mast step also had to be completely replaced. The track had to be pulled. It was a nightmare. As I recall, the quote for my Hudson Force 50 was about 20,000 for repairs and I did not know how to do this.

My solution was to hire a guy to teach me how to do it. His cost to me was about 2,000.00. My cost for everything else, pulling masts, yard time, crane time and building a new mast step was about 5,000.00. Now that is a real savings and I learned much more about my boat in the one area where I had the greatest knowlege deficit.

All of the non-skilled labor was completed by my wife and I. When we had to cut and glue, I was shown how to do it and then I did with assitance. I was supervised and occasionally, I was told to do it over again. But the job was done well and I saved lots of money.

This is one way to be a frugal cruiser.

I admire you for posting this. I have a home repair business and find that about half my clients are really happy to learn how to do what are to me basic things. On a boat being empowered with knowledge and the confidence that accompanies it will at some point probably save your life or at least keep the head from overflowing...

Ps if you ever need crew I'm in Mill Valley

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by jm21

While it seems like most people spend about the same living aboard as those living on land, I think part of that is a choice. I see living aboard as potentially being far less expensive, especially on the hook. Huge savings on expenses such as cars and rent/mortgage/moorage.

Why is that appealing? More vacations, retire early, write that book I always wanted to instead of working, you name it. Maybe be able to work at a job that pays less but you like more. It could also make the difference between owning your home ($30k boat owned outright vs $30k downpayment on a house) which could mean substantially more money in the pocket (no property tax, mortgage insurance, loan interest, etc). I know plenty of people who worked into their 60's saving and saving and now have too ill health to do anything or even dead. What if living on a boat meant retiring at 50 or even earlier? What if that makes it so the carpal tunnel never gets to the point of being nearly disabling or you don't have to replace that knee?

Some people could blow $5k going gambling in Vegas for a week in smoke-filled casinos. I'd much rather spend $5k spending 5+ months gunkholing. It's a personal choice.

I don't really see what the point is in constantly moving around. Spend a week or two or three in one anchorage, relax, enjoy life. Move on to another one (stopping to refill food stores between) and repeat. Just stay in the same general cruising area (for example, puget sound, san juans, gulf islands) for the most part. Maybe switch every few years if you're bored. What's so wrong with that? That's what I would like to do if I was on a vacation. Just meandering around and relaxing taking a break from work, reading, doing hobbies you enjoy. I don't need much glitz or glamor. For me vacations are more for relaxing and not working rather than to see new locations.

For me personally, I think I could make $1k or so per month over the internet. Maybe a bit less. It would be something I enjoyed doing, would take fewer hours per week, I could do almost anywhere, and would be far less stressful. Not a chance in hell I could finance life on land with that type of income. Savings would run out fast. Now let's say I took those savings to buy a boat and I'm living on a shoestring budget on the hook...then $1,000 starts to seem doable. Would I rather be anchored out in the san juans, sitting out in the cockpit answering e-mails and working 20 hours per week....or on land with no vacation in over a year working at a stressful job to pay the mortgage, car insurance, car payment, fuel for commuting, etc., etc.? Not much of a question to me.

I could see living on land in a developing country being slightly cheaper but not a lot cheaper. We've considered that as an option as well but for personal reasons it makes more sense to be in the US or AUS.

Having lived aboard for several years off and on, a couple things need mentioning. First, you aren't comparing oranges to oranges if you compare a $30K boat to a $30K down payment on a house. We're talking "shoestrings" here remember, so no home ownership. You need to rent with roommates if you want it cheap and comparable. That will mean no big utilities, mortgages, insurance, maintenance, etc. I think you will still need a car or some way to get to stores, appointments, shopping, and the like. If you stay in a marina they sometimes have a marina car but if you're on the hook its just public transportation if there is any and there won't be unless you are in a populated area.

Second, living aboard is not like being on vacation long term. A lot think its going to be and maybe for a couple months it is but then the novelty wears off and you realize its just like living on land but harder. I like it and find the difficulties worth the aggravation, but its not 24/7 vacation so don't kid yourself.

As for living in a developing country, I currently do that but in a house. That's much, much cheaper than the US especially if you chose a simple lifestyle. My overall monthly costs are about 1/3 of what they are in the US where I living on my boat. Food costs and labor are the biggest savings.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Having lived aboard for several years off and on, a couple things need mentioning. First, you aren't comparing oranges to oranges if you compare a $30K boat to a $30K down payment on a house. We're talking "shoestrings" here remember, so no home ownership. You need to rent with roommates if you want it cheap and comparable. That will mean no big utilities, mortgages, insurance, maintenance, etc. I think you will still need a car or some way to get to stores, appointments, shopping, and the like. If you stay in a marina they sometimes have a marina car but if you're on the hook its just public transportation if there is any and there won't be unless you are in a populated area.

Second, living aboard is not like being on vacation long term. A lot think its going to be and maybe for a couple months it is but then the novelty wears off and you realize its just like living on land but harder. I like it and find the difficulties worth the aggravation, but its not 24/7 vacation so don't kid yourself.

As for living in a developing country, I currently do that but in a house. That's much, much cheaper than the US especially if you chose a simple lifestyle. My overall monthly costs are about 1/3 of what they are in the US where I living on my boat. Food costs and labor are the biggest savings.

But the whole point is that it's not comparable. Why live in a crappy apartment with stupid roomates when you can own your own waterfront home for equal or lesser cost?


As for the vacation thing, you're right. Living aboard is no different than living in an apartment, except it's a little more work. That is beneficial if you look at in the right light... I could even see living at anchor to be very beneficial for certain people. Some people get up every morning and go for a jog, why not go for a row to shore instead?

But the benefit is that there is a much greater potential for actually taking an extended vacation. It would cost about $1000 for me to travel to FL for 1 WEEk and rent a crappy motel on the beach and have a little fun. But for $3000 I can have a six month vacation in the Bahama's and come back to FL, or any other location, and right away become a liveaboard again without moving any junk, redeeming and paying deposits, dealing with utilities, etc.. etc.. All I'd have to do is find another $1000 a month job, which is pretty darn easy.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

But the whole point is that it's not comparable. Why live in a crappy apartment with stupid roomates when you can own your own waterfront home for equal or lesser cost?


As for the vacation thing, you're right. Living aboard is no different than living in an apartment, except it's a little more work. That is beneficial if you look at in the right light... I could even see living at anchor to be very beneficial for certain people. Some people get up every morning and go for a jog, why not go for a row to shore instead?

But the benefit is that there is a much greater potential for actually taking an extended vacation. It would cost about $1000 for me to travel to FL for 1 WEEk and rent a crappy motel on the beach and have a little fun. But for $3000 I can have a six month vacation in the Bahama's and come back to FL, or any other location, and right away become a liveaboard again without moving any junk, redeeming and paying deposits, dealing with utilities, etc.. etc.. All I'd have to do is find another $1000 a month job, which is pretty darn easy.

What you are doing Crazy.. makes sense and I can see that approach. You spend a little time working somewhere, then take a 6 month - a years sabbatical and do something with the boat. But what I sometime hear people saying (and I see examples in my own marina) is that instead of an apartment I'll just live on this boat and have a water view 24/7. I'm just saying its not the easy as those that haven't done it for an extended period think. And if you really want cheap and simple living you are better off on land in a developing country. Do the backpacker thing to see lots of countries and culture when you get bored and need to travel. Or do it on a bike. We see lots of backpackers and bikers here in Thailand and some have been all over the world ... and cheaply. You can get a small bungalow to use as a base and a place to store your stuff, and travel from there. I met a Dutch guy the other day in Phuket that was doing just that. His small place cost maybe $150/month and he keeps a small Wharram cat on a mooring that he cruised from Burma to Indonesia. Quite a nice life and setup.

One more thing ... to those that think they will live on the hook full time. Where you gonna get the water to shower and bathe? What you gonna do when the creek freezes over in the winter? Think about it.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

What you are doing Crazy.. makes sense and I can see that approach. You spend a little time working somewhere, then take a 6 month - a years sabbatical and do something with the boat. But what I sometime hear people saying (and I see examples in my own marina) is that instead of an apartment I'll just live on this boat and have a water view 24/7. I'm just saying its not the easy as those that haven't done it for an extended period think. And if you really want cheap and simple living you are better off on land in a developing country. Do the backpacker thing to see lots of countries and culture when you get bored and need to travel. Or do it on a bike. We see lots of backpackers and bikers here in Thailand and some have been all over the world ... and cheaply. You can get a small bungalow to use as a base and a place to store your stuff, and travel from there. I met a Dutch guy the other day in Phuket that was doing just that. His small place cost maybe $150/month and he keeps a small Wharram cat on a mooring that he cruised from Burma to Indonesia. Quite a nice life and setup.

I see.

And I see the same thing in my marina. There are several people that live on powerboats here that have no working motors. They do have some inconveniences and an apartment would make life much easier. But not cheaper by any means (at least not here). And, I know from my experience, renting an apartment is like throwing half your income in the trash every month. Owning a boat, even one that doesn't move, is similar to owning a trailer and paying the fee's to keep it in a trailer park. The rent is much cheaper, and you actually own the thing. Maybe it's just a different mindset and doesn't really change your situation much, but mindset is all the really matters in the end, isn't it?

PS: how many trailer parks have a waterfront view?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

I see.

And I see the same thing in my marina. There are several people that live on powerboats here that have no working motors. They do have some inconveniences and an apartment would make life much easier. But not cheaper by any means (at least not here). And, I know from my experience, renting an apartment is like throwing half your income in the trash every month. Owning a boat, even one that doesn't move, is similar to owning a trailer and paying the fee's to keep it in a trailer park. The rent is much cheaper, and you actually own the thing. Maybe it's just a different mindset and doesn't really change your situation much, but mindset is all the really matters in the end, isn't it?

PS: how many trailer parks have a waterfront view?

Yes, the ones I see in our marina are there because they were desperate for a place to live and thought ..."oh, how cool and this will solve my money problems as well." But then reality sets in and 6 months later they are miserable and even more depressed and stuck because they can't now unload the POS they bought to live aboard.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Yes, the ones I see in our marina are there because they were desperate for a place to live and thought ..."oh, how cool and this will solve my money problems as well." But then reality sets in and 6 months later they are miserable and even more depressed and stuck because they can't now unload the POS they bought to live aboard.

Well, I guess that happens often enough. And I'm sure it happens more-so in the long run, after several years of boat decay, rather than 6 months... But, as far as I can tell, the liveaboards in my marina are pretty content with their choice.

I think the same thing happens to people in trailer parks. It's an easy way to own a home but, it's not the nicest way to live for most people. Some people adapt and thrive in that environment, others do nothing but feel trapped and want out...

Once again, "it depends"

It's up to the individual and their outlook on life, how they make their situation work, or not work. It's probably not the cheapest way to live in the long run, but owning something does afford some sense of freedom that an apartment can't provide.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Well, I guess that happens often enough. And I'm sure it happens more-so in the long run, after several years of boat decay, rather than 6 months... But, as far as I can tell, the liveaboards in my marina are pretty content with their choice.

I think the same thing happens to people in trailer parks. It's an easy way to own a home but, it's not the nicest way to live for most people. Some people adapt and thrive in that environment, others do nothing but feel trapped and want out...

Once again, "it depends"

It's up to the individual and their outlook on life, how they make their situation work, or not work. It's probably not the cheapest way to live in the long run, but owning something does afford some sense of freedom that an apartment can't provide.

Agreed. That pretty much sums it up I think.

[MichaelC]

These threads always come down to the same thing. If you are competent enough to do for yourself, you do not need the gadgetry so prevalent in modern American society. If you cannot handle living without these gadgets, then you spend a lot of effort belittling those who can. All the rest is posts.

[brutb]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

No worries, I like jibber jabbering on the internet (folks may have noticed ).

I guess it comes down to how folk define "much" - back in the day I never used to drink much. Just enough to put down an elephant .

But FWIW even if swinging on a hook (or tied to a dock ) with only very occassional forays elsewhere then, in my book (not that it matters one jot ). it's still "Cruising" - after all, who is to say that next week or next year that person won't be heading off further / longer?

I do come from a long line of folks who don't like to be defined or restricted by others (and some us have even managed to keep out of jail along the way. some of us ) - took me a long while to truly understand that there are many folks around who simply don't realise that they can do pretty much WTF they want in this life - without the permission or approval of others (and I include in that folks who will never be met on an internet forum defining "cruising" for "you")......I guess that is the angle from which most of my musings / rambles on CF come from - I think the modern phrase is "Empowering People" .

I want to know how the heck your beer fund is doing. Buy now you should have enough in it to buy all of us at least 1 beer, or better yet make your cruising on $500 a month last at least a year or two longer. I think I will see if I can add something like that to my post as soon as I develope a sense of style like yours. LOL

[Ex-Calif]

Regarding living cheaper on water or land, I'll be out there as soon as I get my refit don and get my home to float.

I am thinking of getting a kindle so I can get rid of some books and make space on board...

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Regarding living cheaper on water or land, I'll be out there as soon as I get my refit don and get my home to float.

I am thinking of getting a kindle so I can get rid of some books and make space on board...

I'm surprised you don't have one already. I love to read while sailing, and had more weight in books than potable water (probably), and next time out I'll never run out of books, considering how many a Kindle can hold.

[jm21]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Having lived aboard for several years off and on, a couple things need mentioning. First, you aren't comparing oranges to oranges if you compare a $30K boat to a $30K down payment on a house. We're talking "shoestrings" here remember, so no home ownership. You need to rent with roommates if you want it cheap and comparable. That will mean no big utilities, mortgages, insurance, maintenance, etc. I think you will still need a car or some way to get to stores, appointments, shopping, and the like. If you stay in a marina they sometimes have a marina car but if you're on the hook its just public transportation if there is any and there won't be unless you are in a populated area.

Second, living aboard is not like being on vacation long term. A lot think its going to be and maybe for a couple months it is but then the novelty wears off and you realize its just like living on land but harder. I like it and find the difficulties worth the aggravation, but its not 24/7 vacation so don't kid yourself.

As for living in a developing country, I currently do that but in a house. That's much, much cheaper than the US especially if you chose a simple lifestyle. My overall monthly costs are about 1/3 of what they are in the US where I living on my boat. Food costs and labor are the biggest savings.

Seems oranges to oranges to me. I know very few people who rent a bout year-round. I also know very few people who live on boats and have room mates (aside from spouse or children). I also suspect many people living on the hook do not have cars or even scooters for that matter.

I have seen people with bicycles on boats. Public transportation is pretty good in some places. I suspect we will see more electric bicycles in the future.

I would not consider it a 24/7 vacation. Like I said, I had a boat and sold it instead of living on it because I thought it would be too hard to live on it and keep a professional appearance for work. But if you were at least mostly able to work from "home" and/or you had a blue collar job it would start to make a lot more sense. Certainly, living on al and has a lot of conveniences.

I have visited Thailand and like it. Also a couple other countries. I don't see how living in Thailand with no room mates would be 1/3 the cost of living aboard in the US on the hook. Can you give a few more details about your budget? If I was single in the US and living on the hook on a boat I am pretty much sure my max expenses would be $1,000 per month. 1/3 of that would be $333 per month. If you could live on $600/month here which seems possible that's $200/month in Thailand.

[jeffknox]

I'm curious about what you mean by "A professional appearance for work."
Does that mean you think you might be embarrassed by what some of your coworkers might think of it. If that's the case I would say letting what others might think of a choice I make is handing over an awful lot of influence. Life is a little too short for that IMHO. Just food for thought.