Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

[Jimbo485]

There is huge variability in fuel usage. Last year we spent just over $400 in fuel and did 9000 miles. Another yachtie we met spent on average $1 000 per month. He had a generator, AC and loved to motor a lot. We had no generator, no AC and tried to sail rather than motor.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by ArtM

This thread started April 29th, 2010 - it's approaching it's 3rd year anniversary.

If people who were living on $500 then are spending $600 now, that's a reasonable rate of inflation, particularly since certain items have gone up much more than others.

Time slips by .

Whilst not on the INDY* evangelical wing of the $500 a month club and indeed my own half hearted (half assed?!) attempt at living aboard last year came to naught - nonetheless I do fancy giving it a go again, and low budget will be a part of it. Partly out of curiosity but mostly wrapped around only being on 30 foot of boat, having fairly limited ambitions at the moment and always having been a tight arse with money when it comes to the dull end of living expenses! (unless I am intentionally pissing it up against a wall - and then I defer to no one ).

Apparently over here has (had?) the 6th highest cost of living in the world (I can't confirm that - but I do know that money here does "travel" well).......but notwithstanding that, on paper at least I think the 500 a month figure is in shouting distance, albeit using GBP and not USD for that figure (I think fair enough as 1:1 more reflective of the buying power than the fx rate).

Mooring (own) - £100 a year
Haul Outs and bottom scrub - nil (40' tides )
Insurance (3rd Party) - I might upgrade to that. or I might not
Health Care - FREE (damned Socialism ).
Cigarettes - £50 a week The last of my vices (note to self, probably should give up ).
Food - £50 week (Ok, I have a crap / cheap diet - but I iz skinny so cheap to fill up ).
Booze - nowadays I rarely drink (honest!). So no actual booze budget required - more of a case if the budget allows and the mood and circumstances encourage then I will happily indulge .
WIFI - I do need my internet fix , but I can get that for free - at least locally. In any event cutting down would probably be no bad thing, if only for my eyesight........

No doubt I have forgotten some important stuff .

Obviously no boat expenses / maintanence in all that - but the hope is that a lot of that has been done in advance (those numbers don't count - it's Boat Accountancy ). Time will tell how accurate that hope turns out to be ..........and no "travel" expenses either, but there are places around these parts (including in the nearby bits of France) that are free to anchor and even to tie up (tidal often makes things cheap!).....and in any event travel not high on my agenda at the moment, even if moving around (from mooring!) is.



* for later comers to CF, INDY started the original (Part I) thread - a bit of a "character", I think he eventually got zapped by the Mods .

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I also get the impression that many folks motor a fair bit on passage - including intentionally. But with a yacht it's not always compulsory . Likely that on $500 a month you can swap time for cash as no Monday morning work to turn up at . I appreciate that location will also be a factor, but that also a choice.

I had wondered if motoring was USA-centric. Can't imagine it's a part of a tight budget but I guess folks are the same all over.

I'd like to see this thread get some pictures. If all one can manage on a tight budget is a poorly maintained floating p.o.s., with a bathtub toy dink, and beans and rice and buds and beer, then the line between cruiser and boat bum gets blurry. Over time, we've all read some serious, even feisty, comments about cruising on the cheap. Proof is in the pudding, wot?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I had wondered if motoring was USA-centric. Can't imagine it's a part of a tight budget but I guess folks are the same all over.

I'd like to see this thread get some pictures. If all one can manage on a tight budget is a poorly maintained floating p.o.s., with a bathtub toy dink, and beans and rice and buds and beer, then the line between cruiser and boat bum gets blurry. Over time, we've all read some serious, even feisty, comments about cruising on the cheap. Proof is in the pudding, wot?

happy to oblige

cruising with concrete,adventures on a $1 boat up the red sea 2006,the motley krew!

[hpeer]

That reminds me of this story SHIPWRECKED OR SHANGRI-LA

Shipwreck Or Shangri-La? - Peter Lickfold - Google Books

A couple have a fero boat that goes walkabout and gets holed in some real out of the way place. They end up there for +/- a year while figuring out how to effect repairs, get stuff brought out by other yachts, and eventually get off.

Interesting story of adaptation and fortitude. And a damn good reason for great ground tackle.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by hpeer

That reminds me of this story SHIPWRECKED OR SHANGRI-LA

Shipwreck Or Shangri-La? - Peter Lickfold - Google Books

A couple have a fero boat that goes walkabout and gets holed in some real out of the way place. They end up there for +/- a year while figuring out how to effect repairs, get stuff brought out by other yachts, and eventually get off.

Interesting story of adaptation and fortitude. And a damn good reason for great ground tackle.

ha ha ! i met them when they were on the beach in chagos repairing their boat!

the boat was holed when a squall came through from the se,and put them on the reef inside the lagoon,where they had been anchored safely from the nw monsoon winds.

the anchor didn't drag they were just too close to the reef due to the difficulty of finding water less than 45m to anchor in,when the wind swung.

nice couple,we gave them some food and caught some fish for them during the 2 weeks we spent in chagos on that visit.

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Well On budgets, I'm pushing $600 a month at the moment. But that includes $65 per month for haulout and maintenance. If I haul out this fall it will be 4 years since the last job. So figure this fall or next spring. No real hard stuff on the hull, but getting more soft growth now. So soon on the bottom job.

The Cat is up to $60 a month but I'm finding ways to cut his fancy non tracking cat litter costs down a little.. That will drop $10 a month by buying bulk. Oh and maybe another $7 savings from buying bulk dry cat food. Caned cat food is tricky for Mr. I don't like this cat food this week.

So my costs per month average:

Slip =$125, 4 to 5 days a month, for trash, laundry, food runs, water, and a long hot showers.
Food =$200 ish, I aim for $170 but then need odds and ends and sundrys
fuel =$40, Some months a little more, some months a little less
internet =$35
medical/drugs $30, no medical insurance, have not seen a doctor in 5 years.
Cat = $60, cat food, cat litter
Boat maintenance = $65, average with money for haul out
boat insurance = $41
misc =$40 (entertainment, restaurants, clothing, odds and ends) Entertainment is normally a few cheap ebooks to supplement the free ebooks I read. Clothing is goodwill or the 70% off clearance racks. two pairs of flip flops per year, etc.

Now that's for me cruising the California Delta to the bay and back. Though I expect that will be doable say on the east coast on the US and central america.

Whats not included:
things I don't use: coffee, alcohol, beer, wine, cigs, etc.
things I don't need: car, house, cable, HOA dues, medical insurance, car or house insurance, yacht club dues, etc. etc.

Food items include, potato's, rice, onion, bread, milk, butter, flour, hamburger, lettuce, spices, sugar, brown sugar, vanilla extract, baking power, tea, tomato sauce, coconut milk (when cheep) cheese, etc. canned chicken, pasta, canned roast beef, popcorn.

I'll buy bulk and split into smaller plastic bags, things like rice or beans (not big on beans). Generally make most meals from scratch, cookies too. Nothing expensive, even fresh chicken is too pricey for me.

If I drop the boat insurance and cat I would be right at $500. Though even $600 is pretty good now a days, what with inflation and all.

BTW, laundry is about $10 a month, but I just use the quarters I get back in change. It sort of comes out of the food budget and well everything else too. Quarters go in the laundry jar (plastic of course). So not really a budget item. Note: I also use the bucket and plunger too for laundry.

Pay a diver on $20 every 6-9 months to replace the prop zinc. Have not paid to have the bottom cleaned since 2009. Zinc's have been coming out of boat stores, but only have a few left. I move around enough that the soft growth falls off with the ablative paint I use. Though the paint is looking a little shabby nowadays...

So that's it in a nut shell for me anyway. As DOJ implied, your mileage will vary. I expect most peoples bar bill to be bigger them my monthly food bill for example.

OK not cruising far off areas, least wise not yet. but still doable in northern cali anyway.

You should change your screen name to hippychic......that is AWESOME! I think I might be on the wrong coast. :-(

[Kettlewell]

Fuel can be a big expense today, and most modern cruisers are essentially motorsailors with big engines, generators, large electrical needs that require lots of charging, etc. Nothing wrong with that--I currently own a motorsailor! But, if you want all that you will not be in the $500 per month crowd, or even double. However, that doesn't have to be the way it is. Back in the 1980s fuel delivery to the out islands in the Bahamas was rather erratic and we were down in the Exumas once when there was no fuel to be found anywhere. We had a handy 30 footer that could really sail, and we went up and down the chain pretty much under sail, off and on the anchor, for about a month. A lot of other folks had to sail too, and it was fun seeing everybody tack in and out of cuts, and sails on the horizon. These days you see mostly a string of sailboats motoring.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Gelfling

You should change your screen name to hippychic......that is AWESOME! I think I might be on the wrong coast. :-(

There is some truth to the hippychic thing.

I believe that besides the type of boat one cruises on, the locations one chooses to cruise makes a big difference too. The USA is, all in all a pretty inexpensive place to live. Well on a boat. California is for the landbased folks and even most marina based folks is a very pricey area. Or it is to me anyway.

I don't think its too doable to live on $500 a month in socal as the slip rents down there will eat up $500 a month and more easy. Really for most marinas in the SF bay area, the same is true. I was paying $550 a month at marina bay for slip and liveaboard fees. But that was before the great resession.

However the San Francisco area, I'm including the central bays and the California delta, offers a pretty wide area for cruising grounds, if you cut the dock lines. After living aboard for, gee almost 9 years now, both in slips and as a anchor out, I've about found what works for me.

Living on $500 a month or $600 in my case, requires several things. First is the lifestyle. For many people, their lifestyle, wants and needs require too many things to approach the simple lifestyle required to life on a minimum amount of money.. For me, just living in and around nature, feeds my soul. But I'm pretty sure I'm not quiet the average person... The trick is to simplify life. But most can not reduce their attachments and feel comfortable doing so..

Second is the type of boat. For me that's a 41 year old solid fiberglass sailboat of narrow beam and cozy accommodations. Its only 150 sf total inside including storage, but the back yard is to die for. Think most power boats and larger sailboats catamarans will have too much ongoing costs of operation and perhaps too much space to accumulate things that break. A simple sailboat with simple systems pretty much is a given at the lower end of the gene pool.

Last is location, I know I can live on the SF bay area on $600 a month. I probably could do the same on the east coast after a year of cruising. It wound be much harder to live on $600 a month in say the virgin islands, or the EU for example. Its probably impossible there. I'm betting. Slip fees, port fees, migration fees, mooring fees, all add up.

Maintenance can and does take a bit out of the budget too. So far I've been pretty lucky and nothing too major has broken. Plus you pretty much have to do all your own repairs. It would be nice to hire someone to work on the boat, but the money just is not there. So I make do and find ways to work around the lack of money.

Its not easy living on $500-$600 a month, but its never boring. Life is good!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I had wondered if motoring was USA-centric. Can't imagine it's a part of a tight budget but I guess folks are the same all over.

Nowadays most boats are designed to be motorsailors because that is what the market demands (even if the buyers don't acknowledge that even to themselves!, hence boats not marketed as "Motor Sailors". Why else would builders spend the extra cash designing in and fitting diesel engines large enough to motor for extended voyages - on a yacht! when they could save money / sell cheaper by fitting smaller engines.

The market always gets what it demands - whether it likes it or not .

I'd like to see this thread get some pictures. If all one can manage on a tight budget is a poorly maintained floating p.o.s., with a bathtub toy dink, and beans and rice and buds and beer, then the line between cruiser and boat bum gets blurry. Over time, we've all read some serious, even feisty, comments about cruising on the cheap. Proof is in the pudding, wot?

I like pictures as well Of course one persons POS is anothers paradise of freedom from "da man" (etc )....and vice verce .

FWIW, it seems that the Boat Bum figure / concept is a largely US thing, certainly to the extent of the disdain poured on them. Not saying that someone over here living on Beans and rice in the nautical equivalent of a Skip (Dumpster) is a figure to be envied - but also not a figure that is automatically treated with scorn and disdain (albeit that can always be earned )..........I guess that comes into the choice of location angle - pick somewhere where the locals if not freindly are at least not hostile and the odds are life will be cheaper and easier as well. The good news on that is it is a big world .

But at the end of the day - does it really matter whether someone else is living on a different budget to "you", and if so how well / happily? What matters is whether you are happily enough living on yours.

Personally I suspect that the "secret" to living on a low budget on a boat involves factoring in at least some paid work - and IMO ideally involving online or a jumbo jet back "home" now and again to earn more than a dollar a day eeking a living from other folks on boats.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Last is location, I know I can live on the SF bay area on $600 a month. I probably could do the same on the east coast after a year of cruising. It wound be much harder to live on $600 a month in say the virgin islands, or the EU for example. Its probably impossible there. I'm betting. Slip fees, port fees, migration fees, mooring fees, all add up.

and there is one of the keys to success - own first hand / boots on the ground knowledge and that simply takes time to collect and will include lessons hard won .

Could you do that in the EU? certainly not in Monaco (unless you knew someone locally - and that is always possible!)....elsewhere in the EU? As you may have heard on the news recently not everyone over here is rich - there are plenty of people living on that (and less) ashore. I can't say how and where exactly, but my gut says doable even if not from day (or year!) one. A bit of local lingo would certainly help as well.

Certainly if you headed to Northern Europe someone could likely rustle you up a free parking spot for the boat that would also drop your haulout and bottom (boat!) scrub costs to the price of a bucket (40 foot of tidal range ), albeit local bye laws require women doing boat bottom work to wear a bikini and roll around in the mud a bit. Honest - and no worries on boat VAT either (wot dat? )............how you got to the EU from west coast of the USA on $500 a month is another thing .

[nimblemotors]

Cheaprvliving.com has a lot of tips on how to live on $500/mo. If 150sqft of living space is for you, then a camper van would be the equivalent of a 60ft yacht.
Edit: One article on someone living in a Ford Fiesta! (that is a tiny car),
I really thought this quote from that article was interesting:

Money Safe:
I'm not hiding money from a would-be thief. I hide it from the highway
patrol. If they find you are carrying more than a few hundred bucks they
think you are a drug smuggler. And then they rip your van apart
looking for their proof.

As I've said, towing a sailboat and being able to sail and overnight at all the places lets you travel and see a lot of things. Here is sailing on Lake Tahoe, costs nothing to anchor in some beautiful places only accessible by boat:

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

, albeit local bye laws require women doing boat bottom work to wear a bikini and roll around in the mud a bit. Honest - and no worries on boat VAT either (wot dat? )............how you got to the EU from west coast of the USA on $500 a month is another thing .

ROFL... You know I'm betting that IS a requirement (bikini and mud) in the UK too. Alas I'm about 20 years past looking good in a bikini.

I'm still working on the $500 a month sailing to the UK too. Well really anywhere. Sure some folks are living on less then $500 a month everywhere. But cats (the furry kind not the two hull type) and buckets cost a lot. I've a high maintenance cat for sure.

Oh already know that I would need to vacate the EU / UK after 17 months to avoid the VAT. Gee the first thing you have to do before sailing off somewhere is figuring out how long you have before the taxman finds you.

[Kettlewell]

The East Coast of the USA can be expensive or inexpensive, but in terms of anchorages I bet there are more free anchorages within an hour of Annapolis than on the entire West Coast south of Oregon. It is entirely possible to never tie up in a marina or tie up to a pay mooring from Maine to Florida and back again, and many do so. Plus a lot of states do not have annual property taxes on boats, and some have some pretty modest registration fees. There is no sales or use tax on boats bought in RI, for example. If one is careful about where you buy, anchor, and how long you stay, you can get those annual necessary costs down pretty low. And, then the general cost of living in the Carolinas, Georgia, and northern Florida are pretty low compared to a lot of the country, though I find that grocery store food prices don't vary that much from place to place. So, if you want to keep on the move mostly, maybe staying here or there for a few weeks at a time, the shoestring snowbirder might find the East Coast quite affordable and enjoyable.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

ROFL... You know I'm betting that IS a requirement (bikini and mud) in the UK too. Alas I'm about 20 years past looking good in a bikini.

The wonderful thing about mud is that it covers a few past sins. and sometimes encourages a few more .

I'm still working on the $500 a month sailing to the UK too. Well really anywhere. Sure some folks are living on less then $500 a month everywhere. But cats (the furry kind not the two hull type) and buckets cost a lot. I've a high maintenance cat for sure.

Oh already know that I would need to vacate the EU / UK after 17 months to avoid the VAT. Gee the first thing you have to do before sailing off somewhere is figuring out how long you have before the taxman finds you.

The cat angle would be a hurdle to overcome, especially to Jersey - but on the upside no VAT here , so can foray into Europe for 18 months. But nonetheless I suspect that it's the bits inbetween that would be the challenge, inlcuding moneywise........unless you decided to "do Europe" going the Jumbo Jet + OPB route...... possibly in p/x for a reciprocal arrangement in your locale?