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Old 24-01-2009, 12:52   #61
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Ships don't stop on a dime nor do they turn on a dime especially when they are making very little way through the water. My guess is the cat drifted in front of the ship and it was never the masters intention to hit the cat. The ship was making a tiny bit of forward way...enough to get to the catamaran. The master probably had the EOT put 1/3 astern when he saw that he was almost there in order to stop all way on. How was the master supposed to predict the drift of the sailboat from a distance before he got there? Maneuvers to ships must be done well in advance and predicting exactly where you are going to be in a minute or two and know your speed then is a very difficult thing to predict. You really have to spend some time conning a ship or at least standing in the bridge of a ship to understand how slowly things happen.

I believe they said the ship purposely hit them as a rescue attempt... Whatever that means.
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Old 24-01-2009, 13:46   #62
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Yes. I doubt that it was collision done in spite. Ships are all too easily labeled as these evil things that ply the oceans looking for yachts to ram. It looks to me like the yacht has more way on than the ship...so really, who hit who?
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Old 24-01-2009, 14:18   #63
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I believe that the story in Lat38 also said that this was the third try to extract the crew of the cat, and that it was getting dark. The captain probably felt a strong need to get the job done this time around.

It appears to me that the ship actually came to a stop shortly after hitting the cat. My guess is that he tried to come close enough that the cat would actually be gentely bumping along the hull, but the cat drifted a bit too much across the ship's bow, thus the collision. It was the best he could do under the circumstances, in my opinion.

Only those sailors who've backed their 12' beam boats into a 14' wide slip in a 30 knot crosswind and 2 knot tidal current, without touching a piling, should feel qualified criticize the captain.
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Old 24-01-2009, 14:37   #64
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Only those sailors who've backed their 12' beam boats into a 14' wide slip in a 30 knot crosswind and 2 knot tidal current, without touching a piling, should feel qualified criticize the captain.
Agreed, but if I miss the slip I can guarantee you I won't abandon ship
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Old 24-01-2009, 17:02   #65
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We have sworn all forum members to secrecy. Ratting out a fellow swabby to the Admiral is not considered good seamanship. Not hitting things is the general standing order. This would include whales, ships, or aids to navigation. The probability of hitting a navigation aid is far greater than you think given you are often aiming at them.
Yep I almost married a nun on the edge of ambrose channel In pea soup fog Glad to have found her but also avoided carnal knowledge. It was a hug but I didn't get screwed. That was before the day of gps etc.. I think the testing of skills and sailor are gapped by a new age. Big brother will take care of us and I can buy epirbs rafts and a slew of other techno goodies. Meanwhile the skippers are profecient engineers but their true metal avoids testing. I don't like the judgment of sar's from partial reports and inexperienced untryed boaters. I do think we will continue seeing these occurances. As in shore sailors can buy insurance and gadgetry the plant exeeds the talent.
We do not know how we will handle extreme situations until we face them. The individual is hard to judge unless they have experienced the extreme. To supplement rea; eaxperience we now have gps radar epirbs insurance not available for purchase are balls. Great read virtue XXXV by Humpher Barton true sailors before the age of Big brother can save me.
Like hiking in high altitudes or splunking adverse conditions can appear quite quickly the waters we sail are available to sudden exposure of extreme conditions.
I sail with a epirb and raft because I sail with my young kids I am responsable for their lives as well as mine. The drogue is onboard because that is good practice. I think there is a difference.
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Old 24-01-2009, 20:51   #66
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The ship in the video was probably a single screw with no BT. Give the captain a break. I thought he did a good job of getting close to a small boat that was drifting out of control.

BTW all ships have Jacob's ladders (rope ladders with rigid treads) used for MOB's and for picking up pilots. Some ships have a cage lowered by a cable but they still have a backup Jacobs ladder.
I've never seen ladders rigged from the bow. I have to wonder about the Captain's competence if he intentionally T-boned the cat. That size ship has a heck of a blind zone ahead - 200-300 feet, so the approach would be by Braille. A smarter plan would be to have gone alongside, upwind of the cat and drift down on it, then toss a line down to the cat and have the deckhands line it up with the Jacob's ladder.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:29   #67
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perhaps that was the intention of the ships captain, but a half mile back he underestimated the drift of the Cat and missed it by that much. If he'd been say, 50 yards further upwind, he would've done exactly what you've suggested. Good call.

This has been a very interesting read so far...
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Old 16-03-2010, 06:13   #68
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How come that this Venezia floats so high in the water when flooded while this Prout is so low? Is it because of sandwich construction and the Venezia being flooded in only two compartments?


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Old 16-03-2010, 07:13   #69
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Skip, I don't believe the boat is actually flooded. You would have to squat the boat three feet below the water line to get the second engine compartment to flood.

Another odd thing is what ever happened to the boat. After the story, no word has ever come out as to where the boat floated to.
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Old 16-03-2010, 07:26   #70
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We will hear about the boat again in few months, at the East end of the Gulf Stream, arrived sound in Ireland!
It reminds me the story of Richard Woods abandoned cat Eclipse!
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Old 16-03-2010, 07:47   #71
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Launching a lifeboat in rough seas is difficult at best. Recovering it in rough seas is impossible.
Not entirely true, as warships tend to be able to do this. However, they do have systems set up to enable this to be done and crew practised at doing it. A merchant ship does not.

I suspect that earlier passes had established that the ship needed to be placeed really close upwind to the cat otherwise the leeway from the cat would have been significantly faster than the ship. In those circumstances it would be VERY EASY to get it slightly wrong. Remember that this is a totally different circumstance to going alongside a berth and the merchie captain would have no real experience at carrying out this manoeuvre.
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Old 20-03-2010, 16:09   #72
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How come that this Venezia floats so high in the water when flooded while this Prout is so low? Is it because of sandwich construction and the Venezia being flooded in only two compartments?

Can't say about the Venezia, but the Prout
  • typically sits lower in the water than the Venezia
  • was washed up on a reef and mist likely had more extensive damage (more holes along the hull)

Yes, something definitely seems amiss in the story as written. The first flag is, "Because it was already November, he couldn't get insurance until he got further south." There is definitely something wrong with that statement!

It could be a problem with the reporter, a language problem and/or the desire to try and make the story "succinct".

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