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scook1 · 07-02-2010, 16:56

Independence and self sufficiency are two parts of the sailing and cruising lifestyle that I greatly appreciate. However, I also greatly appreciate the community aspect and willingness of cruisers to help each other. Maybe the community as a whole is self sufficient?
Spencer

**hummingway** · 07-02-2010, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinwater

The real challenge would be keeping this up, away from a home workshop. I am very impressed by cruisers who can remain effectively self contained for years. Possible, but very challenging.

I had a nice experience today. One of my neighbors at the marina offered me the use of his garage workbench to work on my windlass; I'm a liveaboard. I'm not all that sure I want to be self sufficient in the sense of do it all on my own. I appreciate the help of others, including the advice of those at the dock and in this forum. However, once out there on the deep blue it would be nice to make it back :0-)

MichaelC · 12-04-2010, 18:47

Hey. A sextant is easy to use. Tables are readily available. A taff rail log is a fine instrument. And a deepsea lead will never lie. Sure, the electronics are easier and simpler to use. A motor is an easier way to move your boat than sails or oars. But the old ways are cheaper and reliable. Gaff rig and deadeyes are all things you can make with your own hands. If you eliminate all those electronics and motors and tanks and fancy gear, you can do your sailing in a boat that has far more interior space, or a lot smaller [therefore cheaper and easier to handle and maintain]. Of course we are talking about cruising here, not a boat you use on the weekend when you have to be back at work in suit and tie Monday AM. The Pardeys are absolutely right on. It just takes a lot more learning to do it.

dcstrng · 14-04-2010, 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverhi

The simpler your boat is, the more time you are going to spend actually cruising. GPS is a must have in electronics. We sailed in the good old days of Sextant and taff rail log and the experience was fine. The problem was we almost never knew exactly where we were unless we we were anchored next to a land mark. We were always lost, it was just a matter of degree of lost. After a 20 year hiatus from cruising, was totally blown away by knowing exactly where I was at any time I cared to check. Other than an Epirb for summoning help in a real emergency, everything else is just really nice to have toys...

This seems the right direction to me. I’m not into the austere or absolute asceticism for their sake, but simplicity has much to recommend it and have pretty much used the lead-line approach for years… on the other hand, I’m growing enamored with my little handheld GPS ($80 or so, used) and don’t plan to give up my fiberglass hull either… I think what gives the feeling of self-sufficiency is being able to fix/maintain whatever is aboard… a year or so ago, I was aboard a splendid 45-46 foot cruiser with almost every gadget and gizmo known to mankind, all working in a nearly sterile appearing environment and looking like they’d just been installed, even though they’d just completed a three year Atlantic European cruise – and all maintained by the husband and wife; however, they were both retired naval officers and knew this stuff cold; and their boat/home could pass the white-glove test day or night… they had skills (and self-discipline)I can only dream about… for me simple is better…

From my over-the-road motorcycling days, I'm in the habit of trying to know how to repair almost anything that might break when on the road and then carry the proper parts and tools to fix it (the key is knowing both the part and the tool – I used to keep my eyes open for smaller tools that could do what was needed, and then always used those tools at home too). I figure if I’ve installed something and repaired at home, I stand a fair chance of being able to keep it functioning when out – but if the gizmo is simply a black-box to me, I’m at the mercy of the moment and don’t like that feeling… self-sufficiency can become a distracting fetish in itself, but with a little prior planning and acceptance, sailing need not be a dash from one repair shop to another… don’t leave home without the duct-tape !!

YourOldNemesis · 14-04-2010, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

But still, you cant exactly drop the hook now adays and wade ashore, chop down a tree to make new planking and a mast on some deserted shore.

Sure you can, and sometimes you have to! Not quite a mast, but after our whisker pole snapped, we went ashore and made one out of bamboo. The dinghy we all used by preference on the last boat I sailed was hand-made by the skipper.

We rebuilt the rudder after it came loose from the rudder post half way between Tonga and Fiji.

Sure there are bits of electronics that are too small and fiddly to fix. Everything else is possible. If you have a sextant and the tables then even when your reserve backup emergency GPS fails, you can still find land! Having said that I've sailed with a lot of people across the Atlantic and Pacific, most of them with more experience than me, and it was only me and one other person I met who knew how to use a sextant.

Simplicity is definitely a good thing - too many toys and you're always fixing them and waiting for parts. I know that's true given how much of my land-life I spend fixing stuff!

goboatingnow · 14-04-2010, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelC

Hey. A sextant is easy to use. Tables are readily available. A taff rail log is a fine instrument. And a deepsea lead will never lie. Sure, the electronics are easier and simpler to use. A motor is an easier way to move your boat than sails or oars. But the old ways are cheaper and reliable. Gaff rig and deadeyes are all things you can make with your own hands. If you eliminate all those electronics and motors and tanks and fancy gear, you can do your sailing in a boat that has far more interior space, or a lot smaller [therefore cheaper and easier to handle and maintain]. Of course we are talking about cruising here, not a boat you use on the weekend when you have to be back at work in suit and tie Monday AM. The Pardeys are absolutely right on. It just takes a lot more learning to do it.

Sorry I have to disagree, sefl sufficiency is not about the absence of "toys", its a state of mind. Fill your boat with all the things you can aford, then adopt the following maxim "learn to fix it or do without it". Its not about some mythical return to the past, technology cant be unlearnt, nor if a basic boat the safe-est. Diesel engines are extremely reliable so are lots of electronics.

Ogh one piece of advice , avoid engine mounted compressor based holding plate refrig, its the work of the devil. ( use nice danfoss units, carry three there cheap!).

Bash · 14-04-2010, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

Sure you can, and sometimes you have to! Not quite a mast, but after our whisker pole snapped, we went ashore and made one out of bamboo.

A whisker pole made of bamboo! Any pictures? Can you describe it in terms of how long, how thick, how heavy? How well did it hold up?

I already want one.

Stillraining · 14-04-2010, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcstrng

This seems the right direction to me. I’m not into the austere or absolute asceticism for their sake, but simplicity has much to recommend it and have pretty much used the lead-line approach for years… on the other hand, I’m growing enamored with my little handheld GPS ($80 or so, used) and don’t plan to give up my fiberglass hull either… I think what gives the feeling of self-sufficiency is being able to fix/maintain whatever is aboard… a year or so ago, I was aboard a splendid 45-46 foot cruiser with almost every gadget and gizmo known to mankind, all working in a nearly sterile appearing environment and looking like they’d just been installed, even though they’d just completed a three year Atlantic European cruise – and all maintained by the husband and wife; however, they were both retired naval officers and knew this stuff cold; and their boat/home could pass the white-glove test day or night… they had skills (and self-discipline)I can only dream about… for me simple is better…

From my over-the-road motorcycling days, I'm in the habit of trying to know how to repair almost anything that might break when on the road and then carry the proper parts and tools to fix it (the key is knowing both the part and the tool – I used to keep my eyes open for smaller tools that could do what was needed, and then always used those tools at home too). I figure if I’ve installed something and repaired at home, I stand a fair chance of being able to keep it functioning when out – but if the gizmo is simply a black-box to me, I’m at the mercy of the moment and don’t like that feeling… self-sufficiency can become a distracting fetish in itself, but with a little prior planning and acceptance, sailing need not be a dash from one repair shop to another… don’t leave home without the duct-tape !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry I have to disagree, sefl sufficiency is not about the absence of "toys", its a state of mind. Fill your boat with all the things you can aford, then adopt the following maxim "learn to fix it or do without it". Its not about some mythical return to the past, technology cant be unlearnt, nor if a basic boat the safe-est. Diesel engines are extremely reliable so are lots of electronics.

Ogh one piece of advice , avoid engine mounted compressor based holding plate refrig, its the work of the devil. ( use nice danfoss units, carry three there cheap!).

Nice Posts guys!

This thread is starting to parallel the one I started here..

Self Sufficiency is just that..."not requiring outside assistance"

It matters not what you have or don't have aboard...what matters is your ability to either fix it yourself or do with out as has been said by others may times..

Each of us will have a different threshold or innate ability as to both of those traits...even Black boxes can be replaced in route if a spare is carried....that is in itself being self sufficent.

The age old argument as to what is better, a Simple boat or a complex one is a moot point...as whats better for you is not necessarily better for me or anyone else...its how well we are willing to adapt and go make a Spinnaker pole out of a bamboo tree ( love that story) that separates the self sufficient from the not so....not rather our original pole was carbon fiber or wood to begin with.

Any talk of what costs more to maintain is a moot point as well as far as self sufficiency goes..and is a totally different topic in need of its own thread....I didn't buy a 40' complex boat to be totally self sufficient...Nope!... I wanted 4 women to be on board with me..