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Old 27-01-2015, 16:21   #61
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
How is fouling a vessels prop NOT an act of piracy , as long as that vessel isn't attacking you?
Whatever you feel about whaling, there has to be people on those boats that don't deserve to die. In a tough workers market , were do you draw the line on what you are willing to do to feed your kids?

And if they ever got truly lucky in their prop-fouling attempts, as they easily could do with a bigger and faster boat, thats what we are talking about. Putting other sailors, some not THAT guilty, in grave danger.

And it is bound to escalate the conflict, putting young idealists who follow their hearts , and do not fully understand the situation or the risk, in grave danger too.

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Not a damn thing wrong with your English. And as I suspected we do agree.
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Old 27-01-2015, 16:29   #62
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

I believe he summed it up.
And it is bound to escalate the conflict, putting young idealists who follow their hearts , and do not fully understand the situation or the risk, in grave danger too.

.manitu
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Old 27-01-2015, 16:30   #63
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

I was watching the "Whale Wars" recently and I could not help but want to cheer on the Japanese whalers only because Paul Watson and some of his crew were arrogant dick cry babies.
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Old 27-01-2015, 16:53   #64
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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Why do we preserve wildlife?? would it be okay to farm whales in your opinion?

We breed freaks of nature to eat, animals wich has no place in the nature , and would not survive in it either. We destroy our wild salmon with escaped farmed salmon full of diseases. We destroy the wildlife's natural habitat with monster farms with cattle and monocultures. we breed enormous populations of chicken in tiny cages , and feed them so much that broken legs are the norm nowadays.. But somehow this is all ok to get our meat, just not hunt cute or intelligent annimals for it???

And offcourse I'm against hunting endangered species. So the japanese should quit calling it research , and argument for hunting based on internationally respected countings , wich they now just dont bother with.

But I'm just as much against chopping down rainforrest , endangering lots of species, just to farm cattle for european beef eaters.

And worst of all, we, the west, toss half our food in the bin!!!
AAaahhrrgh!

My point is that these are complicated matters , and they need to be adressed.

.manitu

You are correct , and many countries ate enacting laws to prevent the inhuman treatment of domestic animals bred for food, this includes chickens etc

But two wrongs don't make a right. , simply because we may abuse animals in captivity , doesn't prevent us supporting Sea Shepherd, equally many would be campaigning for better conditions for domestic animals.

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Old 27-01-2015, 16:56   #65
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
I was watching the "Whale Wars" recently and I could not help but want to cheer on the Japanese whalers only because Paul Watson and some of his crew were arrogant dick cry babies.
Exactly. I've been staying out of this because I absolutely hate Sea Shepard (not whales or ecosystems- just the organisation Sea Sheppard).

And RC. What's wrong with fouling props in the open ocean? Really? On motor vessels propelled solely by their props? That's like somebody dismasting you and putting rice in your diesel tank 1000 miles off shore because they don't agree with you. It's pretty bad.
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Old 27-01-2015, 16:57   #66
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
How is fouling a vessels prop NOT an act of piracy , as long as that vessel isn't attacking you?
Whatever you feel about whaling, there has to be people on those boats that don't deserve to die. In a tough workers market , were do you draw the line on what you are willing to do to feed your kids?

And if they ever got truly lucky in their prop-fouling attempts, as they easily could do with a bigger and faster boat, thats what we are talking about. Putting other sailors, some not THAT guilty, in grave danger.

And it is bound to escalate the conflict, putting young (and old) idealists who follow their hearts , and sometimes do not fully understand the situation or the risk, in grave danger too.

.manitu

Sad there are people who not see the validity of what sea Shepard are doing, to prevent the needless slaughter of an endangered species by a nation that is pig headed and too stubborn to listen to international reason




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Old 27-01-2015, 17:18   #67
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

Hypothetical scenario since obviously there is no sympathy for other water users but sailors on this forum

Due to the ending of the population control measures and a little genetic mutation the gators grow bigger and in a few years there are a decent number up around 60 feet that start hanging around out the front of marinas waiting for a tasty yacht to come out where it promptly wrestles with it and swallows the human occupants that fall out.

This happens 10 times in 2 years and the calls for something to be done start to come from widows and other yachties worried to risk sailing past the gators seen regularly outside their marinas. The local government issues an order to remove any gators over 50 feet from the immediate vicinity of marinas etc

SS gets involved and starts posting that its a "cull" and that all gators are being murdered and that gators over 50 feet are extremely endangered and after all the gators were there before people had boats and they dont really eat people naturally etc

Ill informed types from other parts of the world that only fact check through the SS sponsored links (if at all) start bleating "Save the Gators" and so on.

Then really informed types start quoting statistics like "in the last 50 years there have only been 10 yachts attacked by large gators so thats only 1 every 5 years so no big deal" Another says its only 10 in 100 years so its even less of an issue than that.

Then they start getting active protestors from 1000s of miles away to remove the traps at night because the government didnt listen to their little protest and instead continued to act to protect its sailors by removing only those that were close to yachts.

I could then get on the internet from safe little WA and tell you all to just sell your boats and go do something else. What Joy!
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Old 27-01-2015, 17:22   #68
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

I can see the validity of their purpose. I just think they're a bunch of turkeys motivated by glamour as much as saving at risk species.

Look at their sponsors!
Martin Sheen?
Bob Barker?
Come on. Bad actors looking for career revitalization- it's all about the show for these guys. Or as Dennis Hopper put it (co-starring with Martin Sheen). "It's f...... pagan idolatry man".

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Old 27-01-2015, 17:25   #69
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Hypothetical scenario since obviously there is no sympathy for other water users but sailors on this forum

Due to the ending of the population control measures and a little genetic mutation the gators grow bigger and in a few years there are a decent number up around 60 feet that start hanging around out the front of marinas waiting for a tasty yacht to come out where it promptly wrestles with it and swallows the human occupants that fall out.

This happens 10 times in 2 years and the calls for something to be done start to come from widows and other yachties worried to risk sailing past the gators seen regularly outside their marinas. The local government issues an order to remove any gators over 50 feet from the immediate vicinity of marinas etc

SS gets involved and starts posting that its a "cull" and that all gators are being murdered and that gators over 50 feet are extremely endangered and after all the gators were there before people had boats and they dont really eat people naturally etc

Ill informed types from other parts of the world that only fact check through the SS sponsored links (if at all) start bleating "Save the Gators" and so on.

Then really informed types start quoting statistics like "in the last 50 years there have only been 10 yachts attacked by large gators so thats only 1 every 5 years so no big deal" Another says its only 10 in 100 years so its even less of an issue than that.

Then they start getting active protestors from 1000s of miles away to remove the traps at night because the government didnt listen to their little protest and instead continued to act to protect its sailors by removing only those that were close to yachts.

I could then get on the internet from safe little WA and tell you all to just sell your boats and go do something else. What Joy!

Sorry , are you claiming , that despite multiple international sources and studies and attempts by the whaling commission and other bodies to stop the Japanese , that all these are wrong and these animals are numerous and widespread.

I don't see your logic here at all.. Animals that become numerous and come close to human centres of population and attack humans have always been controlled to some greater or lessor extent


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Old 27-01-2015, 17:28   #70
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
You are correct , and many countries ate enacting laws to prevent the inhuman treatment of domestic animals bred for food, this includes chickens etc

But two wrongs don't make a right. , simply because we may abuse animals in captivity , doesn't prevent us supporting Sea Shepherd, equally many would be campaigning for better conditions for domestic animals.

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I believe there is allmost no way to farm animals that inflicts less pain during life than they have to endure, being hunted.
And most big-scale farming has developed issues with antibiotic resistence or some kind of illness tranferable to humans.
+ Lots of other effects on the biosystems wich ultimately effects the annimals a lot harder than if we hunted some of them within reason.

And I do not know if the population of whales at the southpole can withstand being hunted .. mostly because the only one interested in hunting them wont bother to count them or support those who will.

Still, I support the attempts to force japan to do this by the book, even just as documenting and getting media attention, but I think trying to disable the oponents vessel is over the line.

But.. I'm afraid that if it should turn out, after years of rigorous counting, that the whales absolutely could be hunted responsibly ,these people would still go to sea , prop-fouling and stink-bombing whalers.
That , I would not support.

.manitu
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Old 27-01-2015, 17:39   #71
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
I can see the validity of their purpose. I just think they're a bunch of turkeys motivated by glamour as much as saving at risk species.

Look at their sponsors!
Martin Sheen?
Bob Barker?
Come on. Bad actors looking for career revitalization- it's all about the show for these guys. Or as Dennis Hopper put it (co-starring with Martin Sheen). "It's f...... pagan idolatry man".

S
You can do way better than that. Barker is a wealthy man who has retired and this is his gig now, and Sheen is an A lister that picks his roles, not the other way round. they do believe in the cause, like it or not. I do agree with your first point.
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Old 27-01-2015, 17:39   #72
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
I believe there is allmost no way to farm animals that inflicts less pain during life than they have to endure, being hunted.
And most big-scale farming has developed issues with antibiotic resistence or some kind of illness tranferable to humans.
+ Lots of other effects on the biosystems wich ultimately effects the annimals a lot harder than if we hunted some of them within reason.

And I do not know if the population of whales at the southpole can withstand being hunted .. mostly because the only one interested in hunting them wont bother to count them or support those who will.

Still, I support the attempts to force japan to do this by the book, even just as documenting and getting media attention, but I think trying to disable the oponents vessel is over the line.

But.. I'm afraid that if it should turn out, after years of rigorous counting, that the whales absolutely could be hunted responsibly ,these people would still go to sea , prop-fouling and stink-bombing whalers.
That , I would not support.

.manitu

I see no reason why any wild creature should be mass hunted for food actually , since we can farm most food animals and fish quite successfully. With farming we therefore breed numbers in order to the kill them. I have no issue with the killing of farmed animals .

Whale populations have been extensively studied , and they are an endangered species, , even of they were not, there is still no justification for simply killing animals because they are simply there. The primary reason for whale hunting was never food, it was oil., that has passed.

The Japanese have repeatedly engaged in an activity that is condemned by most international groups and countries. The practice serves no purpose.

Fouling or trying to foul props is irrelevant. sea Shepard is trying to stop such whaling , note the word " stop" , in that I support them




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Old 27-01-2015, 17:54   #73
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Hypothetical scenario since obviously there is no sympathy for other water users but sailors on this forum

Due to the ending of the population control measures and a little genetic mutation the gators grow bigger and in a few years there are a decent number up around 60 feet that start hanging around out the front of marinas waiting for a tasty yacht to come out where it promptly wrestles with it and swallows the human occupants that fall out.

This happens 10 times in 2 years and the calls for something to be done start to come from widows and other yachties worried to risk sailing past the gators seen regularly outside their marinas. The local government issues an order to remove any gators over 50 feet from the immediate vicinity of marinas etc

SS gets involved and starts posting that its a "cull" and that all gators are being murdered and that gators over 50 feet are extremely endangered and after all the gators were there before people had boats and they dont really eat people naturally etc

Ill informed types from other parts of the world that only fact check through the SS sponsored links (if at all) start bleating "Save the Gators" and so on.

Then really informed types start quoting statistics like "in the last 50 years there have only been 10 yachts attacked by large gators so thats only 1 every 5 years so no big deal" Another says its only 10 in 100 years so its even less of an issue than that.

Then they start getting active protestors from 1000s of miles away to remove the traps at night because the government didnt listen to their little protest and instead continued to act to protect its sailors by removing only those that were close to yachts.

I could then get on the internet from safe little WA and tell you all to just sell your boats and go do something else. What Joy!
So now your saying that there are genetically mutated sharks near you? I'm lost from your pointless rambling.

This was probably the worst analogy anyone could have ever typed up to defend their stance on killing sharks for the sole reason as them getting in your way.

We, sir, are done here. You've lost credibility at discussion.

- Ronnie...on the geaux
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Old 27-01-2015, 18:00   #74
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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You can do way better than that. Barker is a wealthy man who has retired and this is his gig now, and Sheen is an A lister that picks his roles, not the other way round. they do believe in the cause, like it or not. I do agree with your first point.
Okay, I'll stick with my first point. They're a bunch of turkeys.

It really is the Bridgette Bardot qualities of Martin Sheen, Bob Barker and Paul Watson that make me dislike Sea Sheppard.

Did I mention it was Bardots bad qualities they shared? In her prime, there would have been room for her in my v-birth, opinionated or not.
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Old 27-01-2015, 18:02   #75
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Re: Sea Shepherd adding yet another to its fleet

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I see no reason why any wild creature should be mass hunted for food actually , since we can farm most food animals and fish quite successfully. With farming we therefore breed numbers in order to the kill them. I have no issue with the killing of farmed animals .
And this is were our reasoning differs fundamentally. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

.manitu
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