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Old 28-01-2012, 15:42   #76
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails?

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A very nice Mono hull of any lenght is a half boat,

Any single Mono is to me a half boat,

Its a joke Joice,

I drive a Multihull,

Cheers,
Brian,
I sail a cat and a half.
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Old 28-01-2012, 17:32   #77
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails?

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I sail a cat and a half.
Hahahahahaha Thats the way.

You gotta have humour,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 28-01-2012, 18:46   #78
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

There is a definite learning curve. Sailing is an art as much as a science in my view. Trimming sails can get really OCD if you let it but need not be a constant task when cruising rather than racing. For me, the idea is to get the entire sail shaped in a way that it forms a perfect foil when reaching. A downhaul on the boom allows you to move the center of effort on the main and the location of the snatch block will shape the headsail. The angle of heel, wave action and length of waterline all come into play so it is not just a matter of sail efficiency but a combination of different elements to get the best speed over the bottom.
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Old 29-01-2012, 10:08   #79
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

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For me, the idea is to get the entire sail shaped in a way that it forms a perfect foil when reaching.
Took a Lady sailing with me a few years ago.. she happened to be a TacTiction for one of the "Cup" training boats.. thought we were going sailing for a nice afternoon But once we hoisted the sails out beyond the break water, she climbed atop the cabin looking up at the sails and pointed out to me that she was in her "Spot" for trimming and to just follow her lead..
Thought I knew what I was doing until she came aboard but found that even with my years of racing, I still had more to learn..
as I followed her orders and tweeked the sail, I found speeds on a constant level I had only seen in breef spurts....
When done, I looked up at the sails and saw wrinkles and buckles all over the sail, a very UGLY sight in my mind as I was used to triming a perfect foil in the sail..
I then realized that I was trimming for SHAPE and not for SPEED.. and they are different..
so having a perfect smooth and definded sail shape is not always the fastest.. sometimes UGLY is fastest........
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Old 29-01-2012, 10:11   #80
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
so having a perfect smooth and definded sail shape is not always the fastest.. sometimers UGLY is fastest........
Hmmm .... maybe I'm doing something right after all!
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Old 29-01-2012, 11:06   #81
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

Some adjustments help sail longevity, in addition to speed and helm balance. A few common mistakes we've all seen:

- Jib trimmed to lower telltales but jib leads too far aft/inboard and upper half of the sail luffing badly
- Leech line(s) too loose, allowing leech to flutter
- Main grossly oversheeted downwind
- Main oversheeted / traveller too high upwind, excessive heel and weather helm
- Boat overpowered to windward with a full-bodied main - ie, loose outhaul, halyard, cunningham, etc
- Boat moving under power with main flogging

But hey, anyone moving under sail power deserves credit in my book
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Old 29-01-2012, 11:13   #82
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

By no means great at it. Started out by watching speed as I experimented with different trim. Soon I could feel what was working best for me and something I was comfortable with. Today I still fiddle fart around with trim but as long as I'm moving forward, sail isn't flapping about, I am okay. If I want to wring every .5 knot out of her because I am displeased with her speed---I'll go buy a powerboat.
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Old 29-01-2012, 11:48   #83
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

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Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
Some adjustments help sail longevity, in addition to speed and helm balance. A few common mistakes we've all seen:

-
- Leech line(s) too loose, allowing leech to flutter

But hey, anyone moving under sail power deserves credit in my book

How do I adjust the leech line.I know that it may need tensioning a tad coming off the wind, and slacking a bit when luffing up, but I cannot reach the adjustment.
Same on the main, when reefed, I find I need to tension the leech line just an inch, but geting to it is risking life and limb.
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Old 29-01-2012, 11:56   #84
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Took a Lady sailing with me a few years ago.. she happened to be a TacTiction for one of the "Cup" training boats.. thought we were going sailing for a nice afternoon But once we hoisted the sails out beyond the break water, she climbed atop the cabin looking up at the sails and pointed out to me that she was in her "Spot" for trimming and to just follow her lead..
Thought I knew what I was doing until she came aboard but found that even with my years of racing, I still had more to learn..
as I followed her orders and tweeked the sail, I found speeds on a constant level I had only seen in breef spurts....
When done, I looked up at the sails and saw wrinkles and buckles all over the sail, a very UGLY sight in my mind as I was used to triming a perfect foil in the sail..
I then realized that I was trimming for SHAPE and not for SPEED.. and they are different..
so having a perfect smooth and definded sail shape is not always the fastest.. sometimes UGLY is fastest........
Here's the perfect spot for this:
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Old 29-01-2012, 11:56   #85
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

I have always said that sailing is easy but that sailing well is hard.
Seems based on a lot I have read on this thread I'm correct!
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Old 29-01-2012, 12:10   #86
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

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Here's the perfect spot for this:

Ok , heres where a need for good trim is obvious

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Old 29-01-2012, 12:24   #87
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

This might be fun for those who want to learn.
Sail Trim & Shape
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Old 29-01-2012, 17:31   #88
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

How to get a good trim?

First off, you go find a guy named Al. (Usually short for Alfonse.) You say, "Al,how's the wife?"

He says, "Better than nothin'."

You say, "Take a little off the sides and hide the bald spot."

Al says, "I'm a barber not a magician!"

You laugh, I don't know why, but it's vitally important you do.

Barbers named Burt are often okay, but IMHO, a safer bet would be to stick to Als.

Nose hair cost extra, I usually trim that myself.

And that about covers it.

BTW, I truely can't believe we're discussing all this in a sailing forum.
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Old 29-01-2012, 18:25   #89
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Re: Sailors don't know how to set sails ?

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So sailing with a large heel and lots of sail feels fast, but it's often faster to sail with less sail and therefore less heel. It's also easier on the gear and the crew.
This is the most important sentence in your post, to put it in a nutshell!

Your technical description is well put and explains the technical aspects very well but will loose most sailors. I like the K.I.S.S. principle to bring ideas across. Understanding how the resultant forces act on the vessel is important and will make you a better skipper, for sure.

Developing 'feel' and tuning in to the feedback from the helm, motion of the hull, angle of heel & boat speed attained on different points of sail and in different conditions is also very important. This is the art of sailing.

Look at how often gear is broken on racing boats because they are pushing hard and often too hard (obviously, that's why the gear broke). For cruisers the name of the game is longevity, comfort & safety. I used this quote a few times on this forum and I will keep using it (it was taught to all of my students) - 'Look after the boat and she'll look after you!' This is not so much about maintenance but rather, how you sail her, how hard you push her and the rig.

As has been mentioned already, speed means comfort. But another good old sailing expression very pertinent to criuisers is 'reef early'. This means before the wind increases from 18 to 25 knots; or the seas go from 4' to 8'; or the crew gets too tired, or nightfall is coming; or radar is showing squalls ahead; etc. And often, you'll find your boat speed doesn't actually decrease by that much.

cwyckham, thanks for the post. I enjoyed your technical description...
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Old 29-01-2012, 18:38   #90
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Re: Sailors Don't Know How to Set Sails ?

If you learn to sail on a sailboard (Windsurfer) and get to the point that you sail well in 10-15K winds you will really understand what your sails do. On this sailing craft you are the mainsheet. Being part of the rigging gives you an understanding you will get no other way.
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