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Old 26-03-2013, 15:31   #106
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Taking another approach, you have a safety net extending on the sides of the boat,


but it would need to go up pretty high to really keep you on board, or you need it to extend out from the sides. Not a bad idea in bad weather, plus this keeps your stuff from going overboard too (SOB).
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Old 26-03-2013, 15:32   #107
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

We use the Burke 150 Yachtsman Harness Inflatable PFD when outside harbour and crossing bars.

Senior crew has the auto and I have the manual. They're light and comfortable to wear for long periods.

We always clip ourselves on (compulsory in Oz when crossing bars) so a good tether is part of the deal.


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Old 26-03-2013, 15:44   #108
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Taking another approach, you have a safety net extending on the sides of the boat,


but it would need to go up pretty high to really keep you on board, or you need it to extend out from the sides. Not a bad idea in bad weather, plus this keeps your stuff from going overboard too (SOB).
Required on offshore race boats.

There are some things us cruisers could learn from the experience of racers.
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Old 26-03-2013, 16:30   #109
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

While life belts are nice, they do have issues.

Having spent two prolonged periods in the water making it the 1/2 mile or so back to shore when kayaking in some hairy conditions, I really encourage you to test the belts and other slim-line PFDs.

When the side straps are cinched, a paddling or kayak PFD will catch under your lowest rib, if the rib is ahhhh accessible. If one does not cinch the side straps on this type of PFD. it will ride up and try to slip over your head.

On another thread someone noted that inflatable PFD's like the Mustang or belts will ride up. If the PFD rides up, you will be faced with fighting to keep your PFD on, while figuring our your next move. It will also make any kind of a swim more difficult- trust me.

On that same thread someone mentioned adding crotch straps. Simple, albeit inglorious solution to the problem.


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PS- this marks my one year anniversary with Cynosure. One year, 200 engine hours, average runtime per day of operation- a tad over 2 hours.
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Old 26-03-2013, 17:17   #110
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I think the Wingnuts case is a red herring. Statistically how often are you going to be trapped in a capsized boat where you want manual inflation versus the situations you want auto inflate? What other cases are manual inflate better?
I think you are correct on the Wingnuts tragedy. I happened to stop through this boats home port shortly after the accident. When I heard others talking about it I asked about the situation. Apparently the boat was an experimental design. I was told it was as happy or happier floating upside down with the design. It was apparently small ballasted race boat with very wide wings that the crew sat on to add ballast and was very unstable unless balanced. The captain and first mate were said to be great sailors. I was told but never followed up to confirm that the deceased died from blunt force trauma to the head with secondary drowning so I doubt their experience is helpful here. A quick web search confirms the info:

URL]http://mobile.soundingsonline.com/home/mishaps_rescues/287683[/URL
"Local authorities completed their own inquiry. Charlevoix County (Mich.) Sheriff Don Schneider says the coroner’s report states that the primary cause of both deaths was blunt force trauma to the head. The secondary cause was drowning. Schneider says he believes the weather ultimately led to the fatalities. “I don’t have the expertise to pinpoint any other causes,” he says."


The boat for reference:

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I clip on if going forward or the conditions warrant in the cockpit. I am also very conscious of my medical issues that left me with terrible balance. I wear my PFD w/harness under way knowing my strength isn't what it used to be after the unplanned jaunt through healthcare system despite my best efforts to regain it.
Hope this helps!
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Old 26-03-2013, 19:03   #111
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Required on offshore race boats.

There are some things us cruisers could learn from the experience of racers.
He's talking about netting through the lifelines. ISAF just has minimum standards for lifelines, and they only require 24" tall stanchions for boats over 28' long.

starting with section 3.14
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documen...2012Mo0240112-[11792].pdf
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Old 26-03-2013, 20:23   #112
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
On that same thread someone mentioned adding crotch straps. Simple, albeit inglorious solution to the problem.
Yup, I always wear a crotch strap with mine. I've never had the pleasure of pulling the inflator, but it certainly feels like it would try and fly off my head without the crotch strap.
I also find I have to get the 'tightness' of the crotch strap just right... too tight and i'm singing soprano, too loose and I catch on things as i'm moving about.
I do wish there was a more elegant solution.
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Old 26-03-2013, 21:24   #113
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Trying to escape an upside down cabin with any pdf is working against buoyancy, therefore you shouldn't have any on below decks. But the inflatable have an explosive like discharge that could throw you against bulkheads, so especially these.

Most of the inflatable vests have very explicit recommendations that you activate them, both when you first get them and when the rearming kit expires. Otherwise, how do you know that they ride up or how loose that crotch strap should be; how do you know the strobe works or you have to replace batteries? You also want to experience the activation and discharge under non stressed situation.

Any non swimmer and friends who have not sailed with me before have them on before we leave the dock. People who have consumed vast quantities of alcohol put them on or are cutoff (sometimes both). Otherwise the smaller the boat the more often I wear it: Dink -- always; 23' in 15kn probably; 31' in 15kn not unless we are doing COBs.
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:07   #114
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If I buy a good inflatable with harness Pfd from, say, West Marine, what extra product should I buy to have 'crotch traps'?
Not sure what exactly to buy. Any feedback is appreciated
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:19   #115
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Life Jacket Straps | Sail Magazine
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Old 26-03-2013, 23:01   #116
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

My friend just purchased 2 PFD's and when I looked at them she told me that they said the Co2 was new and I asked How Much? She said $175. I said great buy for them SOS's. I opened one up and found this.. Cartridge was dated 2003 with no green indicator's installed. I told her that both systems are to be considered bad. You have to check them out before you really need them. Here's the pictures I took for her. She emailed the company and they don't respond back.. I think its a shame when peoples live are at stake, they put money in front of their own ethics.

So Check those PFD's MEN!! and Women ! before it's to late. Capt.Linda
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Old 27-03-2013, 00:00   #117
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Hi all! I would just like to add TWO area's of great concerns I have with "auto inflate systems". One of the other members commented on a boat being upside down in water trying to get out and your PFD fires keeping you pined to the floor of the boat. I think that warrants a thought or two on that.
#2. I have an designated "Emergency Throw Bag"(ETB) that carry's all kinds of stuff to survive with. In the case of abandon ship that's the first bag off. I always tell my guests about it and show them how to do it. I stress the importance of the bag being life or death! And they all usually ask for questions and I give examples of what If's. I make it so we all vote and pick 2 people and make that bag their responsibility to assure it's in the water with them asap. Throw the Bag and Jump in and Retrieve,Pull the cord (TBJRP). So far I haven't had to use it but I do pull the tab to inflate the bag every year and re-gear it and test all equipment inside. That's my spring thing..LOL Hope this give you some ideas for yourself on safety idea's. The kids love the idea and usually wined up jumping overboard to practice..lol Regards Linda. P.S. However; as a real Captain I'm last anyway..lol I have just completed my SOP's for the vessel last month.. boy what a book. I leave no stone un-turned.
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Old 27-03-2013, 04:12   #118
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Trying to escape an upside down cabin with any pdf is working against buoyancy, therefore you shouldn't have any on below decks. But the inflatable have an explosive like discharge that could throw you against bulkheads, so especially these.

.
Yup- that is why I put my kayaking rescue knife on the strap under my right arm. If it all goes pear shaped the Gerber River shorty knife is designed to cut away the tether, PFD or just pop the bladder.
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Old 18-07-2013, 13:12   #119
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

PHP Code:
[QUOTE=MarkJ;1192063]Each to their own.
 
Look at the difference between your avatar photo and mine
Yes, he definitely thinks he is the Master Mariner. That is one salty photo. You would think he was rounding the HORN.

Most confident people of accomplishment do not feel the need to boast. Look at all those titles under his name? Sounds like someone that is looking for something?
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Old 18-07-2013, 15:00   #120
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

[QUOTE=somedayy;1288119]
PHP Code:
[QUOTE=MarkJ;1192063]Each to their own.
 
Look at the difference between your avatar photo and mine.
[/
QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

Yes, he definitely thinks he is the Master Mariner. That is one salty photo. You would think he was rounding the HORN.

Most confident people of accomplishment do not feel the need to boast. Look at all those titles under his name? Sounds like someone that is looking for something?
Not a Master Mariner, no commercial ticket. Do not call myself Captain.

Photo taken in 2000 3/4 way from Honolulu to Vancouver.

I am a Commercial Member as an instructor.
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