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Old 23-03-2013, 09:17   #61
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Regarding falling overboard on a tether and being dragged: one nice thing about a catamaran is that the jacklines can be setup near centerline so that the tethered person can just reach the rails/stern/bow without being able to go over them.

On passage, we are without tether in the cockpit and use the tether if it is necessary to go on deck. Any seas or boat motion that could throw us out of our cockpit would be so extreme as to most likely cause capsize or the loss of the boat. Those conditions would be easily recognized.

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Old 23-03-2013, 09:41   #62
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Word on the street is that the fatality on Uncontrollable Urge was clipped on when the boat rolled in the surf--the survivors were not. Nobody on Low Speed Chase was clipped on when they went in the surf, and 3 of 8 survived. The fatality on the Cynthia Woods rollover was primarily due to auto-inflating life vests going off in the cabin. The two Wingnuts crew who couldn't release or cut their tethers died when their boat flipped.

You pays your money and takes your chances. For me, its a self-inflating harness with a quick release on the chest end of the tether, and I clip on when I feel like it, which is not often.

And now a word from one of my role models:

"I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dryrot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me a magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The proper function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time."

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Old 23-03-2013, 09:46   #63
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
... There's not too many on this forum who are complete dills so its fine to experiment a bit, you'll know what you feel safe doing.
And those of us who are primarily solos accept the risks. Wives and kids demand greater care for sure. However, for me that's what's wrong with modern sailors. To think that a wife/companion would be in a dither to stop/anchor/dock the boat is a sad comment on sailing ability and seamanship.

While in rant mode, there's always a thread about learning to sail in a larger boat. Obviously you can learn lots but we all know folks who are in trouble without the engine running. What you can't learn IMO is the finesse factor of sail trim and close quarters handling. Remember the poster who commented that's what the fenders are for. He wasn't joking. You get to learn all the finer moves in a small boat without much risk of harm or expense.
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:30   #64
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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So what that means is you are more worried about having to replace the CO2 cartridge than you are of needing it to automatically inflate and save your life when needed.

I not sure what the purpose of your life vest is as you don't even believe it will save you.
As other have already pointed out, there's pros and cons to self inflators. At the time I was buying I went for a pull string inflater because I felt the risk of a premature inflation was significantly greater than the risk of me hitting the water unconscious, and a self inflation could actually result in knocking me off the boat and the lack of mobility would probably render the life jacket somewhat useless... especially during a race.
Strokes & folks... I guess ultimately, i just decided I trusted a pullstring more. I'm happy to be cross-sold to a self inflator though. Situations and techonolgies all move on.
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Old 24-03-2013, 02:53   #65
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Don't clip on a cat because of capsize. That shows a complete lack of multihull knowledge. Bows sometimes pierce waves and sometimes the motion is quick enough on the bow for your feet to float up off the deck. It is always possible for a sail to knock you off. It strikes me that the writer was just anxious to post a capsize comment.
As the writer, my Cat comment (#48) was done completely tongue in cheek to emphasize the fact that the dynamics of being at sea calls more for leadership awareness and assessment of your crew and craft…rather than regurgitating simplistic sailing school rules of always clipping on.

My basic safety assessment for any boat with any number of hulls:
  • Racers should always clip on because they do stupid things and invite disasters.
  • Newbies and children should always clip on and wear vests until they develop a sailor’s awareness.
  • Experienced skippers should be allowed to make their own assessments and live with the consequences.
  • Some skippers are not safe in any condition and they should find another career or hobby.

I hope that clarifies what has been mostly a silly…(but fun) discussion of standardizing safety rules at sea
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Old 24-03-2013, 03:43   #66
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Remember the poster who commented that's what the fenders are for. He wasn't joking.
Was that me?

I like fenders not always intended to be used! (but can be a very useful tool).....but even when not used does help with a touch of confidence that a booboo will not become a disaster (relatively speaking!).

In regard to clipping on, I suspect am likely the same as most others - have a variety of approaches, inconsistently applied .
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:17   #67
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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............

In regard to clipping on, I suspect am likely the same as most others - have a variety of approaches, inconsistently applied .
+1
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:33   #68
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

I think that some common sense should prevail.

We have a rule: Night sailing, when you go out of the hatch alone you clip on. If it is rough during the daytime you clip on. But there are times when the risk is low enough, and the consequences of falling off are not so final, like calm days when other people are on deck, that the nuisance of wearing the harness and dealing with it just isn't worth the small added safety factor.
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Old 24-03-2013, 05:12   #69
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Was that me?

I like fenders not always intended to be used! (but can be a very useful tool ... .
Nah. The guy that called Rebel a turd. He bought a small boat in Miami. Threw some stuff on it. Knew nothing, and had a lousy time in the keys boat-bound in windy weather. Then wrote about the lousy time he had. He meant it to be humourous but it wasn't very funny, poorly written, and he got creamed for it as he tried to hand out "advice" and his "secret" to success.

Corpus: ... I took one lesson, bought my first boat and sailed it out in the bay (and back ) by myself the first time. Getting in and out of the slip was by the hardest part, but that's what they make bumbers for after all. The rest is common sense.
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Old 24-03-2013, 06:21   #70
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Offshore sailing is one of the last available avenues for those who are free spirits and love the challenges of life without the interference of Society and its rules and regulations. How you sail and equip your vessel is a direct reflection of your personality and how you are hardwired for life. There are those that love direction, regulation and regimentation and others who operate best by their knowledge and instincts. For the former, sailing is merely an extension of their shoreside life where they dance to the beat of someone else's drum adhering strictly to the dictates that require jacklines, life jackets,Epirbs, life rafts, radar and the likes. For the latter, who uncomfortably exist within the boundaries of our "civilization," sailing represents the freedom from societies constraints where one can truly be self reliant in a truly existential world. My comments are not meant to be mean spirited or a condemnation of one group and a promotion of the other, but rather a realization that we all approach life in different shoes. My personal belief, however, is to practice good seamanship and common sense based upon my experience and my opinion that less is better. I truly hope that all the well intentioned souls who wish to regulate our waking and sleeping lives and create a society of well machined and obedient automatons will leave us alone. Of course, this story has not been finished. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 24-03-2013, 06:55   #71
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Just seems stupid to be in fear of the medium you sail on. water.

If its that scary to take a boat out, that suddenly because its night you are going to fall up, over and out of a cockpit then you should take up Lawn Bowls.

Get rid of the damn tether unless its rough. Learn to sail the boat and get comfortable at sea. Wear one when moving out of the cockpit, thats fine, i do, but in good weather in the cockpit its just silly.
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Old 24-03-2013, 07:16   #72
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Offshore sailing is one of the last available avenues for those who are free spirits and love the challenges of life without the interference of Society and its rules and regulations. How you sail and equip your vessel is a direct reflection of your personality and how you are hardwired for life. There are those that love direction, regulation and regimentation and others who operate best by their knowledge and instincts. For the former, sailing is merely an extension of their shoreside life where they dance to the beat of someone else's drum adhering strictly to the dictates that require jacklines, life jackets,Epirbs, life rafts, radar and the likes. For the latter, who uncomfortably exist within the boundaries of our "civilization," sailing represents the freedom from societies constraints where one can truly be self reliant in a truly existential world. My comments are not meant to be mean spirited or a condemnation of one group and a promotion of the other, but rather a realization that we all approach life in different shoes. My personal belief, however, is to practice good seamanship and common sense based upon my experience and my opinion that less is better. I truly hope that all the well intentioned souls who wish to regulate our waking and sleeping lives and create a society of well machined and obedient automatons will leave us alone. Of course, this story has not been finished. Good luck and good sailing.
LOL... +A1..

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Old 24-03-2013, 08:26   #73
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Nah. The guy that called Rebel a turd. He bought a small boat in Miami. Threw some stuff on it. Knew nothing, and had a lousy time in the keys boat-bound in windy weather. Then wrote about the lousy time he had. He meant it to be humourous but it wasn't very funny, poorly written, and he got creamed for it as he tried to hand out "advice" and his "secret" to success.

Corpus: ... I took one lesson, bought my first boat and sailed it out in the bay (and back ) by myself the first time. Getting in and out of the slip was by the hardest part, but that's what they make bumbers for after all. The rest is common sense.
[/FONT] [/I]
Corpus did not call Rebel a turd. It was someone else that was defending Corpus.

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Old 24-03-2013, 08:31   #74
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Corpus did not call Rebel a turd. It was someone else that was defending Corpus.

Steve
Correct. It was too late fer me to edit without mod-ulating.
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Old 24-03-2013, 09:47   #75
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
As the writer, my Cat comment (#48) was done completely tongue in cheek to emphasize the fact that the dynamics of being at sea calls more for leadership awareness and assessment of your crew and craft…rather than regurgitating simplistic sailing school rules of always clipping on.

My basic safety assessment for any boat with any number of hulls:[LIST][*]Racers should always clip on because they do stupid things and invite disasters.[*]Newbies and children should always clip on and wear vests until they develop a sailor’s awareness.[*]Experienced skippers should be allowed to make their own assessments and live with the consequences.[*]Some skippers are not safe in any condition and they should find another career or hobby.[/LIST

I hope that clarifies what has been mostly a silly…(but fun) discussion of standardizing safety rules at sea
I dont feel it is a silly conversation. There are many topics and many new members constantly.
When topics are re-discussed you can "flip the channel, change the station", maybe someone could benifit, even veterans.
I mean we are not talking about Britany Speers, this is a valuable topic.
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