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Old 22-03-2013, 19:05   #46
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
So when someone posts MarkJ fell overboard and drowned, we will all toast and say "he went out his way!". If you don't have children or family that will miss you, no problem. I do. But I do agree, it should not be a LAW to wear a seatbelt, a helmet, life jacket, etc.

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Sounds good and tough until you consider the young family whose boat, at night, runs into the unlighted one you fell off and drowned from because you weren't hooked on, and all six of them die too. Even without family, we are not alone here. If you're going to fall off your boat, please open the seacocks first.
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Old 22-03-2013, 19:16   #47
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Now that the group has beat the *#! Out of this topic-again. May I suggest a benign topic, or something like fin vs. full keel, or anchor types... Or perhaps.... Gasp.... Productions boats vs....?
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Old 22-03-2013, 19:21   #48
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
Whats the thoughts of clipping on say a 45 ft cat?

I have never done it on ours, only should have on 2-3 situations though.
It is a very stable platform
LOL… I was wondering when the Cat issue would come up

I do not think you should ever clip on in a Cat…. If it turns turtle, you might have a problem un-Hooking and swimming to the surface,
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Old 23-03-2013, 00:40   #49
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
was this man not wearing a lifejacket?
Isn't that what keeps you from drowning if you fall into the sea?
He might have been injured before he fell, like whacked his head against something before he went into the water.
JackB
This was also my first question when I read the article... however, my lifejacket (Baltic 150n w/ harness) wouldn't help me too much if I was completely comatose. It doesn't auto-inflate (scared of accidental inflation), and I'm pretty sure it wont roll me over.

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I do not think you should ever clip on in a Cat…. If it turns turtle, you might have a problem un-Hooking and swimming to the surface,
On a race cat, sure. But cruising cats turn turtle about as often as monos go the bottom, where you'd have a bigger issue with being clipped on.
I clip in on a cat when the conditions dictate... certainly when going forward.
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Old 23-03-2013, 01:34   #50
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Well I guess hard and fast rules work best when tied to the dock. When offshore, our rules are:
1. If we'd had to reef - we clipped on
2. If we're alone in the cockpit - we clip on
3. At night - we clipped on

I can't say I always obey them. The value of a thread like this is that I get to re-evaluate if I need to be more disciplined to actually obey my own rules more religuosly. For example, there's two of us in the cockpit, we've got one reef in but the conditions are still fairly benign; the headsail sheet gets hung up on something during a tack, it's just so easy and practiclal to go forward and release it and so impractical to clip on and struggle forward for something that is best done quickly. If tethered on I can't see the value of wearing a lifejacket. As far as the rogue wave goes, at least in NSW the BOM warns that waves can be twice the height of the averages forecast. I don't regard this as a rogue wave, it's just something that we need to be aware of and allow for.
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Old 23-03-2013, 05:28   #51
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Wannabe-007 View Post
.. however, my lifejacket (Baltic 150n w/ harness) wouldn't help me too much if I was completely comatose. It doesn't auto-inflate (scared of accidental inflation), and I'm pretty sure it wont roll me over.
So what that means is you are more worried about having to replace the CO2 cartridge than you are of needing it to automatically inflate and save your life when needed.

I not sure what the purpose of your life vest is as you don't even believe it will save you.
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Old 23-03-2013, 05:35   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe-007
This was also my first question when I read the article... however, my lifejacket (Baltic 150n w/ harness) wouldn't help me too much if I was completely comatose. It doesn't auto-inflate (scared of accidental inflation), and I'm pretty sure it wont roll me over.
Then quite frankly its useless.

This is the reason I sail offshore using my 275n auto inflator. And I keep it In good condition , currently considering a 275 spinlok as its a bit more comfortable.

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Old 23-03-2013, 05:44   #53
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by psk125 View Post
Sounds good and tough until you consider the young family whose boat, at night, runs into the unlighted one you fell off and drowned from because you weren't hooked on, and all six of them die too. Even without family, we are not alone here. If you're going to fall off your boat, please open the seacocks first.
Or if you wear a tether and go over the side.. to find you cannot get back up due to the drag on you... make sure your carrying a sawsall and cut a hole in the hull b4 you die...
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Old 23-03-2013, 06:15   #54
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Over ten years ago I was lying in my bunk when all of a sudden I heard a lot of activity on channel 16 on the VHF. I still think about it today and how even with a number of crew and five other boats in the area helping immediately the chances of being found can be slim:

"Jamie Boeckel, 31, of Newport, R.I., boat captain of the 66-foot ocean racing sloop Blue Yankee, was swept overboard on May 24 in Long Island Sound and is presumed dead. The incident occured during the Storm Trysail Club’s Block Island Race. Boeckel was thrown from the bow when the spinnaker pole broke off Fairfield, Conn., while the 16-man crew was making a routine sail change to a smaller running spinnaker. It was 8:37 p.m. and just after dark. At the time, northwesterly winds were gusting over 25 knots following the passage of a cold front.

Brock Callen, another professional sailor on the boat, took off his shoes and jacket and jumped in after Boeckel, who was seen floating face down and was apparently unconscious. At the same time, a second crewmember released the boat’s man overboard apparatus, consisting of a flotation ring, dan buoy, and strobe light. Callen swam the 20 yards to Boeckel and tried to support the unconscious man in the 50-degree waters of Long Island Sound.

The man overboard gear was nearby, but out of reach and drifting away in the strong winds. The boat got back to Callen within eight minutes, but Boeckel had already slipped from his rescuer’s grasp."
Block Island Race Marred by Tragedy | Sailing World

Nineteen boats and some helicopters were not able to find Boeckel. His body was found two weeks later. Really bought home to me that it may not matter if you are alone or have multiple crew on deck at the ready. Your safety is YOUR responsibility and you can't always rely on others to save you in time. I tend to think of that incident every time I put on my inflatable life vest.
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Old 23-03-2013, 06:41   #55
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

Why manual inflate? During the Windnuts investigation it was pointed out that getting out of an inverted cabin with an inflated vest is nearly impossible. Several tests since then have supported that getting out of an inverted boat in the dark with an inflated vest could be impossible. So while being knocked unconscious is certainly possible, I would opt for manual. But 2 valid positions.

Don't clip on a cat because of capsize. That shows a complete lack of multihull knowledge. Bows sometimes pierce waves and sometimes the motion is quick enough on the bow for your feet to float up off the deck. It is always possible for a sail to knock you off. It strikes me that the writer was just anxious to post a capsize comment.

You're going to get dragged and die. OBVIOUSLY when you are single-handing you keep the tether shorter than that. When there is other crew it's not a problem; have someone watch you when you go forward in snotty conditions.

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Don's question was legit and it has been established by experts that there are 2 valid sides to the argument. The others were blow-hard; things are not so simple.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:15   #56
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Why manual inflate? During the Windnuts investigation it was pointed out that getting out of an inverted cabin with an inflated vest is nearly impossible. Several tests since then have supported that getting out of an inverted boat in the dark with an inflated vest could be impossible. So while being knocked unconscious is certainly possible, I would opt for manual. But 2 valid positions.

What was reason behind the "getting out of an inverted boat in the dark with an inflated vest could be impossible"? Was it from the water, companionway hatch size, or something else?

I don't think an inflated vest would make much difference in getting out of my boat. But I admit I never really have thought of this and have always thought of life vest mainly from the point of being outside having to "do" something for safety, or mostly from a washstander point of view.

I actually feel that inflatable vests are for safety when you really aren't that worried so that comfort is a consideration. For **** times I feel a real vest is called for and there are some great designs that allow movement etc.
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Old 23-03-2013, 09:24   #57
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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What was reason behind the "getting out of an inverted boat in the dark with an inflated vest could be impossible"? Was it from the water, companionway hatch size, or something else?

I don't think an inflated vest would make much difference in getting out of my boat. But I admit I never really have thought of this and have always thought of life vest mainly from the point of being outside having to "do" something for safety, or mostly from a washstander point of view.

I actually feel that inflatable vests are for safety when you really aren't that worried so that comfort is a consideration. For **** times I feel a real vest is called for and there are some great designs that allow movement etc.

Many of the inflatables have the floatation required of a type I lifejacket, one Mustang I just looked at had 26 lbs of buoyancy. Ever tried to swim down underwater with even a type III on, 15.5 lbs of buoyancy?

I think the Wingnuts case is a red herring. Statistically how often are you going to be trapped in a capsized boat where you want manual inflation versus the situations you want auto inflate? What other cases are manual inflate better?
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Old 23-03-2013, 09:33   #58
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Quote:
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What other cases are manual inflate better?
On any capsized boat, but especially a cat. What are you gonna do when you flip and maybe have to swim downwards before going up to the surface?

You see how many idiots drowned in that plane that crashed in the western Indian Ocean in the 90s? Mostly due to premature lifejacket inflation. How are you gonna stop it before you want that inflation if it is automatic???
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Old 23-03-2013, 09:38   #59
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pirate Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Many of the inflatables have the floatation required of a type I lifejacket, one Mustang I just looked at had 26 lbs of buoyancy. Ever tried to swim down underwater with even a type III on, 15.5 lbs of buoyancy?

I think the Wingnuts case is a red herring. Statistically how often are you going to be trapped in a capsized boat where you want manual inflation versus the situations you want auto inflate? What other cases are manual inflate better?
Potentially... Every time you go out on a mono with a bolt on keel... in water deeper than your air draught...
Don't sweat it..
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Old 23-03-2013, 09:57   #60
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Re: Sailor Washed Overboard Drowns

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Originally Posted by Sabbatical II View Post
As far as the rogue wave goes, at least in NSW the BOM warns that waves can be twice the height of the averages forecast.
Yes, it seems most people forget that. Wind gusts too.

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If you're going to fall off your boat, please open the seacocks first.



My inflatable life jacket is a bum bag, fanny pack type. Sits very small and in the small of my back when I'm working on the foredeck. Difficult to buy now as they are so cheap the Chandleries like the expensive ones.

I don't use jack lines either. Prolly got scared off them cos when I first bought the boat there were jacklines set out, so I used them and they crumbled from UV damage! So I just hook onto SS shrouds, inner forestay etc, hand holds back to the cockpit.

Sometimes I clip on when I sleep in the cockpit because I get scared I might sleepwalk


There's not too many on this forum who are complete dills so its fine to experiment a bit, you'll know what you feel safe doing.
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