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Old 06-10-2019, 08:33   #61
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Everybody's different! The ways of cruising are different. Some use the engine whenever it's convenient, others use engine plus sails some of the time, sails some of the time. Some sail part of the year. Some sail all of the year. Some start out with a loose goal, like the Pardeys, for "as long as it's fun." Others have circumnavigation as a goal. Among circumnavigators, some do brief ones (shortest I know of was 9 months), others, for longer times, and some never complete them.

What is cruising like? walking long distances over dusty roads carrying heavy objects; fixing your boat in ports where you don't speak the local language; coping with whatever the weather gods send your way whether you like it or not; dealing with illness in places where you don't speak the local language; and it is also exploring, swimming, snorkeling, hiking, maybe even making side trips to go skiing. It is whatever you make of it.

And yes, on the longer passages, you will be eating preserved foods, whether canned or dried, or a mixture.

What you gain from the experience depends on what you have brought to it: your interests and predilections have a whole lot to do with your experiences, and your destinations, and ultimately that is why the question, "what is cruising like?" is in a way, unanswerable. One can say what it is like for them, but not what it would be like for someone else. In addition, it will change as you age. Your attitudes about some things will change.

Tom Lehrer once said, "Life is like a sewer: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it." I'll leave this at that....for now.

Ann
Great response from an experienced cruiser.

We are nearing the end of our first long term cruise of about six months. For me cruising has been about near constant learning and adapting to new and changing environments. Its above all a lifestyle where one day is never the same as the next. It's about being close to nature. It has not been without adversity. Even though we have just covered over 2500 miles, sailing has only been one part of the lifestyle, albeit one that I enjoy very much. Sailing provides sport and physical exercise ensuring the lifestyle does not become too sedentary. It also satisfies my need for aethetic pleasure. Each cruiser gets to define their own cruising style and what it means to them.
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Lots of good answers here to what folks think I'm asking. I plan to reread them several times.

The thing is my boat is small (less than 30' with an 8' beam) so the thought of spending any length of time on it not being on the move is a worry.

The prospect of retirement is another worry, and I'm trying to make some sort of a plan. Cruising seems like a good one, but I'll need some sort of goal or objective.

As far as a land based residence, I provide a home for my ex and a grown son (health problem stable at the moment) so I'll have that if I need time off the boat

The boat I have now I know well. I have a good feel for it since I'm been sailing it almost 10 years now (and raced small boats for 15 years before that), but a bit more performance would certainly be nice which is why I mentioned that C&C 36 in another thread (plus they just dropped the price another $2,000)

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...fSource=browse listing

The thing is my present boat has a dodger, autopilots, 5 anchors (two main anchors with 250' plus rode and 40' heavy chain) roller furling jib, 2011 engine, solar/controllers, LED Interior lighting, plus a new tiller!

The C&C has a old 1979 diesel, no autopilot, roller furler, dodger, and I don't know about the anchoring situation, but it appears to be set up for racing so the anchors will probably be the minimum needed. (lunch hook etc)

Also as mentioned in another thread, it might be a good idea to first cruise the small boat then move to that larger, faster, better pointing, and maneuvering possibly fin keel, spade rudder boat later but it sure would be nice to have it now to get used to it
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:34   #62
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

Thanks for the advice. (RSH)

I always thought the "for me" part was understood, but I'm not retired and am still dealing with a lot of overtones and fronting from others both young and old at work. (which seems to be the norm and I perceive no rudeness from it)

There's a guy there at work a software tech that is 78 years old. The way I determine if he's having a good day and feeling alright physically is if he insults me when he sees me!

If I haven't seen him in a few days in the hall or if he just waves without an insult, I know not to bother him
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:50   #63
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Beats working til you're 70 just in time to pop your clogs.



Quote:
. Table 1 and the chart indicate that for people retired at the age of 50, their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8. An important conclusion from this study is that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average.



https://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gut...sc/retire1.htm




While there is a correlation between retirement age and longevity that does not imply causation.

Economic status and related healthcare history is a better explanation for both.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:12   #64
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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...
Economic status and related healthcare history is a better explanation for both.
The previously linked study is almost 20 years old and based on older data. A newer study would be interesting because so much has changed in company cultures and retirement programs in the US in the last 20-40 years.

When I was in college back in the 1980's, I worked for a major world wide company. One of my jobs was to perform retirement calculations for employees which was very interesting. This was not in my field of study but it was one of the best things I could have done at that stage of my career. My coworkers and I had many a conversation on why company retirees died within 18-24 months of retirement.

This was a great company and the vast majority of employees worked at the company from college until retirement. Being part of the company was part of one's identity. Coworkers were family. There was loyalty from management to the employee and vice versa. Being an employee meant something. Once one retired, that was all lost and gone, which we think caused people to simply loose their meaning/will to live and they just died.

This is NOT the reality in today's work place in the US. It is the exact opposite of how many/most companies in the US work today. While working they did not have to worry about loosing their job to off shoring. They did not have to worry about being laid off. They had a full time job for life in a great company. Today, not so much.

These were highly paid people with access to great healthcare, both while working, and in retirement.

A new study based on today's company culture, constant rounds of layoffs, offshoring, age discrimination, and self funded retirement programs would be more interesting.

Later,
Dan
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:53   #65
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Old 06-10-2019, 20:31   #66
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Since I'll still be a home owner with extended family there, maybe another option would be to sail back say to the Gulf Coast then fly home (or get a rental) and pick up a vehicle to bring back to my new location then stay there for a few weeks or months

This might be a good way to transition into full time cruiser guy or at least test the waters so to speak

Then I'd be somewhat like one of those liveaboards you see with his SUV or car crammed with all the crap he doesn't have room for on the boat which for me would be full size bike, maybe some tools, clothes, shoes, etc, etc
A number of people cruise this way. We met a couple earlier this year, having the time of their lives on a Hunter (27') whose "car" was an SUV, and they took it inland a few places to go camping in national parks more or less along their route. IIt was handy for shopping, too. They were not experienced sailors, and I don't know how *cruising* will work out for them long term. They were not ready to try a long time away from the car, yet. And, they had an aging Labrador with them for all this, so many challenges from the boat that were missing for them for car travel.

My imagination says that it would get to be a drag for me, to have to ride the public transport back to pick up the vehicle and bring it along, plus finding safe places to leave it....might be costly, too. But everybody's different, and you're the only one who can say if a plan's worth giving a try, to you. And, obviously, you could make fewer suv stops than my guys did.

Ann
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:40   #67
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

Criminy! Have I been on the wrong forum all this time?
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Old 06-10-2019, 21:51   #68
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
So is there a difference?

I'm thinking there is a big difference between those that want to motor or sail a few miles then hang out a marina (or anchorage) on a condo style late modern fin keel boat for a few weeks and call it cruising compared to those that have an objective to sail the world or their immediate area for a few years

This sort of goes back to the full keel boat threads that have recently popped up.

If you are constantly on the move for a few weeks, months, or even years then the old narrow full keel boats that can be had at a very low price might be the best boat to purchase at least until you figure out if you actually enjoy the cruising life since it isn't about hanging out down below etc unless it has to do with sleep or bad weather
I think there are a couple of things going on in your opening post.

It seems you are judgmental about people who enjoy their boats without a goal of full time cruising and you would like that view to be validated by us on the forum. Time to put that aside; everyone has a right to chose their own style of boating, and to call it whatever they want, and we are not to judge them for it.

I think you are also trying to decide whether to cruise on your current boat or chase after that other one for which you currently lust or even to cruise at all.

You are probably not going to find the answer to either by asking this forum, these are questions you need to sort out yourself, but of course we'll all be happy to give you opinions, food for thought.

Anyhow, there are not two choices, there are an infinite set of options, none wrong.

In our case we decided, years ago, and for no particular reason, that we wanted to live aboard a boat, and to live on it in some different places. (Liveaboards? Liveaboard travelers?).

But we were already sailors and liked racing. So we bought an old race boat, moved aboard, and started saving.

And we raced.

After 10 years we had enough money so we could leave. Quit our jobs and set out. Kept the race boat. We crossed the pacific, ran out of money. Got jobs. Kept it up. Travelling, racing, working.

Or guess you could say, living on our boat, in some different places, doing what we loved to do. I have to say that this has been a wonderful life, a wonderful life.

After 34 years we've given up on crossing oceans. But we still live on the boat, full time (we've never really had a house) cruise several months a year, and race 20-25 times a year. We go to the gym three days a week, and we have an active social life (with a bunch of non-sailing cruisers, mostly). And we love it.

And we've never gotten bored with it, and never felt like we had to just hang out down below because we had nothing else to do.

We both had good professional careers. Mine sounds a lot (A LOT) like yours does. Do I miss it? Not in the slightest.

So OP, don't dwell on the choice of cruiser or sailor, you can be anything and you'll find a way through what ever it is it that fits you, and don't fret about the boat choice. It doesn't matter. If you don't change boats and if you think you want to later, you can.

And if you love your job and your boat and your sailing life style, keep it.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:31   #69
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I think there are a couple of things going on in your opening post.

It seems you are judgmental about people who enjoy their boats without a goal of full time cruising and you would like that view to be validated by us on the forum. Time to put that aside; everyone has a right to chose their own style of boating, and to call it whatever they want, and we are not to judge them for it.

I think you are also trying to decide whether to cruise on your current boat or chase after that other one for which you currently lust or even to cruise at all.

You are probably not going to find the answer to either by asking this forum, these are questions you need to sort out yourself, but of course we'll all be happy to give you opinions, food for thought.

Anyhow, there are not two choices, there are an infinite set of options, none wrong.

In our case we decided, years ago, and for no particular reason, that we wanted to live aboard a boat, and to live on it in some different places. (Liveaboards? Liveaboard travelers?).

But we were already sailors and liked racing. So we bought an old race boat, moved aboard, and started saving.

And we raced.

After 10 years we had enough money so we could leave. Quit our jobs and set out. Kept the race boat. We crossed the pacific, ran out of money. Got jobs. Kept it up. Travelling, racing, working.

Or guess you could say, living on our boat, in some different places, doing what we loved to do. I have to say that this has been a wonderful life, a wonderful life.

After 34 years we've given up on crossing oceans. But we still live on the boat, full time (we've never really had a house) cruise several months a year, and race 20-25 times a year. We go to the gym three days a week, and we have an active social life (with a bunch of non-sailing cruisers, mostly). And we love it.

And we've never gotten bored with it, and never felt like we had to just hang out down below because we had nothing else to do.

We both had good professional careers. Mine sounds a lot (A LOT) like yours does. Do I miss it? Not in the slightest.

So OP, don't dwell on the choice of cruiser or sailor, you can be anything and you'll find a way through what ever it is it that fits you, and don't fret about the boat choice. It doesn't matter. If you don't change boats and if you think you want to later, you can.

And if you love your job and your boat and your sailing life style, keep it.
Thanks for the advice.

Have you been on your boat Wings the whole time?

As far as cruising with or without a goal, that's definitely up to the individual sailor/skipper/family.

I'll add one more thing here about goals. While living along the Gulf Coast in the 1990's and racing beach cats, I hung out with the monohull guys a lot. Some were cruisers. Some were cruisers that when not sailing/cruising were catching up on their drinking! They usually started around 10 am. You can see where I'm going with this. I saw this at many marinas. And it wasn't just the cruisers, we racers were just as bad except it's hard to sail trapped out, tacking and gybing for 4 -24 hours and drinking continuously. So we usually started later (and being in our late 30's early 40's maybe we showed the effects a bit less)

I would at minimum though if I cruise like to do some Island Hopping in the Caribbean. This after a year or so of coastal cruising the US as a sort of shakedown while also running from the worst of Winter and the worst of Summer. This would include revisiting places I have lived in the past along the route

I think my present boat can get the job done, but it's too small down below. It's nice to say I'm going to spend most of my time in the cockpit or on deck someplace but there will be times when I'd have to be below decks for a while. Plus sleeping with a lee cloth at an angle of 25 degrees or more at times doesn't sound like a good way to get your beauty rest.

Plus I'd want a shower. Pouring gallon jugs of water over myself is fine on weekend and vacation cruises in summer, but I don't believe the water would last long cruising for a month or two straight and when it gets cold that'd be another problem

But who knows, others have cruised the world on small boats and made the adjustment

Maybe I would do a sort of boot camp if still on this boat as a start to cruising. Load my boat and sail up and down the bay for a few weeks without any land based living. No queen size bed, hot shower, or driving to the market for fresh food. It would all have be accomplished from the boat

With the end goal/test being to motor/sail down to Morehead City or Cape Lookout along the ICW and return on the outside (in season) by sailing around the Outer Banks/Cape Hatteras and getting a boost from the Gulf Stream and coming back into the bay over the first tunnel South side as I saw a couple sailboats do yesterday while day sailing

Luckily for them, they had a nice 22 knot SE wind to ride in on
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:22   #70
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Have you been on your boat Wings the whole time?
Yes, we moved aboard in April 1986.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:30   #71
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
.......

I think my present boat can get the job done, but it's too small down below. It's nice to say I'm going to spend most of my time in the cockpit or on deck someplace but there will be times when I'd have to be below decks for a while. Plus sleeping with a lee cloth at an angle of 25 degrees or more at times doesn't sound like a good way to get your beauty rest.

Plus I'd want a shower. Pouring gallon jugs of water over myself is fine on weekend and vacation cruises in summer, but I don't believe the water would last long cruising for a month or two straight and when it gets cold that'd be another problem

But who knows, others have cruised the world on small boats and made the adjustment

Maybe I would do a sort of boot camp if still on this boat as a start to cruising. Load my boat and sail up and down the bay for a few weeks without any land based living. No queen size bed, hot shower, or driving to the market for fresh food. It would all have be accomplished from the boat

With the end goal/test being to motor/sail down to Morehead City or Cape Lookout along the ICW and return on the outside (in season) by sailing around the Outer Banks/Cape Hatteras and getting a boost from the Gulf Stream and coming back into the bay over the first tunnel South side as I saw a couple sailboats do yesterday while day sailing

Luckily for them, they had a nice 22 knot SE wind to ride in on
How about taking it one step at a time. Head down tbe ICW and make your way to the Bahamas for a season. Then head back to your home area and reevaluate: do you want to make cruising a full time gig? Do you want to make improvements to your current boat or start with a bigger one? This is a low cost approach - you don't sink a ton of committed time into it or a ton of money. You'll know what you want to do when you finish the season.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:41   #72
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Yes, we moved aboard in April 1986.
Geez! You've been at it for a while.

Here's my cruising boat from the 1980's! I cruised Arkabutla Lake in Mississippi from end to end which was maybe 2-3 miles
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:57   #73
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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How about taking it one step at a time. Head down tbe ICW and make your way to the Bahamas for a season. Then head back to your home area and reevaluate: do you want to make cruising a full time gig? Do you want to make improvements to your current boat or start with a bigger one? This is a low cost approach - you don't sink a ton of committed time into it or a ton of money. You'll know what you want to do when you finish the season.
I think I'd need to do a bit of ICW at a time. I don't think I'd want to go down that far at one time.

My sister always told me about her husband's bitching about stupid sailboats slowing him down motoring the ICW while he wanted to get going on his 35' sportfish and later a 44'er which he docked at Man-O-War Cay, Bahamas. He was super inpatient. And btw, she lasted about 2 months cruising/boating/fishing and he lasted 25 years and still going somewhat. He's in his 80's now

As far as my current boat, I bought it in 2011 for $2,000 and have dumped another $10,000 into it and it still needs rigging and if I cruise it two more sets of reef points and maybe AIS (plus radar?) since I sail single handed plus maybe some better cushions and maybe a small fridge or cold box

That money was spend slowly over 8 years. I just added a new dodger, mainsail cover, shades, LED Cabin Lamps, and painted the interior, cockpit, topsides for the second time plus a third bottom job

Video shows the new dodger which was $1200. Autopilot was $450 but I got the old one (a Simrad TP10) working so I have a backup. First autopilot was lost overboard during a heavy downwind sail (long story)

I also just replaced the tiller. The other one broke in half while sailing home from Kiptopeke 20 miles across the bay in 18 knots of wind. Luckily I was only about 2 miles from my creek and used the sails for a bit then motored in. That tape was the problem. Dampness. See picture below.

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Old 07-10-2019, 18:02   #74
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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I think I'd need to do a bit of ICW at a time. I don't think I'd want to go down that far at one time.

.....
The trip I proposed is not that challenging. You can be down and back in 6 months without rushing it. You would have your answers as to boat and desire after that.
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Old 08-10-2019, 03:20   #75
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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The trip I proposed is not that challenging. You can be down and back in 6 months without rushing it. You would have your answers as to boat and desire after that.
Thanks nice idea, but I'm not worried about the area I'd be sailing or motoring in (unless I got caught in some weather while in a bad spot while in the Bahamas and had to anchor for a week waiting it out) but the hum drum of the ICW for that first 800-1000 miles down to West Palm or where ever I decided the jump off point would be.

Then again if I took some time and sailed parts of it especially early in the season when maybe there was less "traffic" maybe in March and visited places I used to live it might be enjoyable

I still think the 250 mile or so trip down to Morehead, NC along the ICW then back on the outside around the Outer Banks and Cape Hatteras would give me a really good idea of a decent cruise and I be back in home waters in two to three weeks or so. I'd want a Southerly wind though for that return trip but could possibly anchor near Cape Lookout and wait for it. (Cape Lookout is a nice spot and I used to fish there a lot)

I was thinking Cape Lookout then back north but Morehead might be better for a quick resupply. Plus I'd like to see where I used to put my boat in and see the inlet where I almost lost a 17' boat due to big waves.

I also almost lost one outside that inlet just off Atlantic Beach because I/we were inside the outer set of breakers trying to pick up a friend that was swimming out to meet us. Only reason we got away from a big breaking wave was because my wife screamed and when I hit the power the old engine actually reved up and got us around it
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