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Old 16-06-2016, 10:34   #16
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
True. Small note: If sailing east of Catalina Island off the southern coast of California then you're in US waters. Twelve miles from the mainland coast and twelve miles from Catalina = 24 and the gap is but 22 miles wide.

Still doesn't matter though, because the right of Innocent Passage then applies - just sail through non-stop.
Yes and No. The CG has the authority to interdict any vessel on the high seas, literally anywhere; and does. Does not mean you have to check into customs, but you do have to stop for inspection if the CG wants to check you out. If they want to tow you into port, they have the authority to do that also. Innocent Passage went out with windjammers.
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Old 16-06-2016, 11:03   #17
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yes and No. The CG has the authority to interdict any vessel on the high seas, literally anywhere; and does. Does not mean you have to check into customs, but you do have to stop for inspection if the CG wants to check you out. If they want to tow you into port, they have the authority to do that also. Innocent Passage went out with windjammers.
Not Canadian vessel..
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Old 16-06-2016, 11:12   #18
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

I woudn't put a whole lotta faith in that - whatever the strict letter of the law may be :-)!

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Old 16-06-2016, 11:38   #19
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

...and the UK requires notice to arrival and departures, but then they don't respond to the faxes or emails. They don't follow their own rules.

If you have to stop in a US harbor on a Canadian boat due to storm or other problems, call the Coast Guard and ask for a number for immigration.

There's a French phrase for stopping in emergencies that gets you a lot of latitude.
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Old 16-06-2016, 12:03   #20
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

You are no doubt thinking of "force majeure", a concept known to us English-speaking peoples as "Acts of God", i.e. things you cannot control that have placed you in the invidious position of having broken the law.

But don't go thinking that because a concept exists in French law - or any other nation's - it will ipso facto be recognized and saluted by Uncle Sam.

Might makes right :-)!

The simple thing for a Canadian to do if he wishes to brave the Oregon coast is to "clear inwards" at Friday Harbour in the San Juan Islands. Leave a documentary trail that evidences that you are 110% law abiding.

The US has just invoked new regulations for Canadian yachts clearing inwards. Get them, read them, understand them, and don't get too big for your puny Kinaydian boots :-)

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Old 16-06-2016, 12:28   #21
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Not Canadian vessel..
Oh yes, Canadian vessels also. Its not your granddad's world anymore.
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Old 16-06-2016, 12:29   #22
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Do I need to clear customs in St John if I'm planning to anchor in St John for a lunch stop and not go ashore? joeicnet@aol.com
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Old 16-06-2016, 12:37   #23
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

But we are talking of making a landfall now. OP asked about making a passage. Nobody in the civilised world stops you from transiting their territorial waters. Just imagine what would happen if all Caribbean states started acting like that!

As long as a state has signed and ratified the relevant convention, you cannot be restrained in making an emergency stop. No need to say this is emergency only and should not be overused by sailors who think they are very smart. But this is not the case of the OP either.

I am not sure how common genuine emergency stops are. This far, we have never been forced to make one.

Having an engine failure on a sailing boat is not a force majeure as was learned by one tired and bored sailor who longed for a cold one while sailing via the Torres Strait. A hefty fine and a request to move one was all he got. No cold one either as he was not allowed ashore at all.

A brief Internet search or an email or two to relevant authorities on your route set the record right and tell you exactly what your options are. No braina. Customs and Immigration guys know this too.

Cheers,
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Old 16-06-2016, 15:27   #24
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yes and No. The CG has the authority to interdict any vessel on the high seas, literally anywhere; and does. Does not mean you have to check into customs, but you do have to stop for inspection if the CG wants to check you out. If they want to tow you into port, they have the authority to do that also. Innocent Passage went out with windjammers.
He's at it again

What "authority" would that be - which applies to a vessel of another country in international waters?

AFAIK, the US doesn't govern the world yet.
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Old 16-06-2016, 15:35   #25
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yes and No. The CG has the authority to interdict any vessel on the high seas, literally anywhere; and does. Does not mean you have to check into customs, but you do have to stop for inspection if the CG wants to check you out. If they want to tow you into port, they have the authority to do that also. Innocent Passage went out with windjammers.
So the CFRs I posted back in #7 referring to innocent passage are a load of crap and the CG can ignore them.
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Old 16-06-2016, 15:41   #26
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

As was the case in a number of other countries the Australian government went totally paranoid after 911 and tightened up the rules and regulations for vessels and aircraft entering Australian national jurisdictions. One of the regulations was the prior notice requirement, I think it's 96 hours prior notice of intention to clear in is now required. However, whilst I am fairly certain that turning up in an Australian port unannounced and claiming distress whilst your real agenda is a cold beer at a local pub accompanied by your rabid dog might annoy the authorities, I am fairly confident that vessels which have a genuine emergency and do what they can to notify someone in authority that they wish to enter would not have any problems.


Whilst cruising up the Queensland coast a few weeks ago I heard a vessel on passage from New Caledonia calling the local Volunteer Marine Rescue on VHF regarding the Port of Bundaberg, the VMR made an after-hours telephone call to customs and instructions to enter and tie up at the quarantine wharf, not leave the vessel etc were passed on via VHF.


Australian authorities can be pretty savage with miscreants and there are severe penalties if one is caught out flaunting the rules but the flip side is that they are generally fairly good to deal with if one tries to do the right thing and will go to fairly extensive measure if you actually require assistance in an emergency in the territories they are responsible for.
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Old 16-06-2016, 15:45   #27
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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He's at it again

What "authority" would that be - which applies to a vessel of another country in international waters?

AFAIK, the US doesn't govern the world yet.
Oh no, not you again. Go here and learn something. http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/na...nforcement.pdf

USCG has jurisdiction over all territorial and the high seas(read international waters). So many clueless folks. You might not be aware of it but under most of our treaties, foreign vessels of another country(yes redundant) can be stopped in international waters. Was the fundamental legal reason we could blockade Cuba and also stop all boats from entering ports in Granada before we invaded. Also used to stop boat carrying cargo from North Korea . We also do not recognize a lot of other nations' maritime jurisdictions. We transit the north pole and do not as a matter of policy inform Canadian authorities.
So when did you surrender your citizenship?
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Old 16-06-2016, 16:02   #28
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Oh no, not you again. Go here and learn something. http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/na...nforcement.pdf

USCG has jurisdiction over all territorial and the high seas(read international waters). So many clueless folks. You might not be aware of it but under most of our treaties, foreign vessels of another country(yes redundant) can be stopped in international waters. Was the fundamental legal reason we could blockade Cuba and also stop all boats from entering ports in Granada before we invaded. Also used to stop boat carrying cargo from North Korea . We also do not recognize a lot of other nations' maritime jurisdictions. We transit the north pole and do not as a matter of policy inform Canadian authorities.
So when did you surrender your citizenship?
Still struggling with those comprehension skills I see.

From your link:
"All Coast Guard officers and petty officers are Federal law enforcement officers and they may board any United States vessel anywhere."

Remainder of tirade deleted as irrelevant to topic under discussion.

What citizenship do you think that I have surrendered?


To quote another poster on another thread:
"
You have been parroting every offshore text book cliche without seeming to understand them at all"

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Old 16-06-2016, 16:21   #29
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

Yep. It's always a problem that lay people rarely read the definitions preceding legislation. A word's meaning in law is rarely the same as it is in daily speech. I dug the following outta the "flashcards" used to train USCG men:

The Coast Guard can exercise authority under 14 U.S.C. 89(a): “Upon the high seas, waters over which the United States has jurisdiction and any vessel subject to the jurisdiction or to the operation of any law of the United States.”

High Seas - For the purpose of SMTJ the High Seas extend seaward of a nation’s Territorial sea to the Territorial sea of another nation.

In the first para the comma in this construction "...high seas, waters over..." is there for a reason. That reason is given in the second para. Yotties beware!


I noted, BTW, that the US DOES recognize "force majeure". Best o' British luck te ye, if you should claim it :-)!



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Old 16-06-2016, 16:40   #30
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Re: Sailing through Foreign Waters

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Yep. It's always a problem that lay people rarely read the definitions preceding legislation. A word's meaning in law is rarely the same as it is in daily speech. I dug the following outta the "flashcards" used to train USCG men:

The Coast Guard can exercise authority under 14 U.S.C. 89(a): “Upon the high seas, waters over which the United States has jurisdiction and any vessel subject to the jurisdiction or to the operation of any law of the United States.”

High Seas - For the purpose of SMTJ the High Seas extend seaward of a nation’s Territorial sea to the Territorial sea of another nation.

In the first para the comma in this construction "...high seas, waters over..." is there for a reason. That reason is given in the second para. Yotties beware!


I noted, BTW, that the US DOES recognize "force majeure". Best o' British luck te ye, if you should claim it :-)!



TrentePieds
Unfortunately, that comma you are referring to, while it may be in the training flashcard, is not in the legislation.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/14/89

The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.

Th USCG has NO jurisdiction over me or my boat beyond US territorial limits.


(Also see https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...hap5-sec89.htm)
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